Lexminster

Has anyone here gotten a professional buff and wax job on their IS? Were you happy with the results? How long did it take? What did it entail? Cost?

I'm thinking about getting a buff and wax job done professionally. It's going to run about $350 and it takes 2-3 days and involve heat buffing and a 3 coat Zaino wax job. I spoke with the owner of the shop and it's a very involved process. I really want to do this, but I'm nervous. Should I do this? My car is about a year old, but previous owner wasn't so loving towards the car I've got minor swirls in there, and my car is black sapphire pearl so the swirls are definitely visible in the sun. I just wanted to see what your experiences have been.

Thanks Guys.

GiantsFan

iTrader: (9)

im thinking of doing buff/clay bar/wax/etc job too...I have some very minor scratches and swirls in the clear coat... looking forward to the replies...

jfelbab

Personaly I'd do it myself. For $350 you can buy all the tools and polishes needed to keep your car, and several others, in perfect condition for years.

2-3 days for a detail is unusual. Polishing the swirls out of a paint can easily be done in a day unless you are driving a semi.

If you choose to do it yourself, you will also be able to touch it up as new swirls are introduced. You will find that using a PC is easy to master and with the pads and polishes available today you will be able to completely detail your car in a day. I'd suggest that you consider this option anyway.

Check out the forum sponsors for the products and if you want any detailing advice let me know. I did this as a sideline for over to 45 years before retiring.

“Give a man a fish; you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.” —Chinese Proverb

That proverb applies to detailing quite well.

toyemp

Personally, I'm not sure I would trust a shop that called it "heat buffing". Can't say I've ever heard that term before. As stated previously, it should be a 1 day job for an IS. If it were me, I would try another shop

Chris@GlimmerGlass

iTrader: (3)

I agree. 2-3 days seems a bit excessive for an exterior detail. Price looks about right though. And I also agree w/ doing it yourself if you have the patience and desire. Like Jim mentioned, for the amount you spend on having someone do the job, you could purchase the supplies that will last a long time, saving money in the long run.

TrendyTodd

iTrader: (6)

2-3 days of work for $350 is cheap. But Zaino does require a near-flawless surface in order to see great results. It will enhance everything under it. I usually charge $500-$1k for a multi-day detail, but that are usually larger cars, ie LS460.

Before you commit to the detail, I'd ask the detailer for referrals and call or meet some of his customers. If he's taking multiple days on these cars, he should also be insured. Ask for proof of insurance. He should also have pictures to document his processes.

He shouldn't have a problem with any of these questions. If he does, I'd think twice.

Good luck and keep us posted.

LEXUSF

iTrader: (3)

good idea i never thought of that!

Stokdgs

I have both Portercable 7424 and Flex VG3401, and I would take the Flex anytime, because it force rotates randomly and works faster at removing scratches, etc.. The Portercable will also do this but it will take longer. However, if you are new to this, then perhaps the Portercable would be a good starting point. Just get good pads like from Lake Country.
Everything else said about claying, etc., is correct and it has always worked for me as well..
If you are using Zaino with the catlyst ZFX, the most you can do in 24 hours is 3 coats of either Z2 or Z5. I would do this and then wait overnight and put a couple of coats of the Zaino ZCS Clear Seal over that, and then it would be really protected
You will also need a product to remove the swirls, scratches, etc., whatever you have BEFORE you put on the products just mentioned.
Zaino also has a ZPC Fusion product that will remove most scratches, and polish out real clear. If your scratches are not too bad, you might get away with the Zaino AIO (all in one) product that removes light scratches, and leaves a coat of Zaino on the paint.
I would really work on getting as many of the defects out of the paint before I would put any product on top..
Zaino has no fillers or oils in their products, so what you do beforehand makes the finish really look great or not so great.
Alot of other products use oils ad fillers, to hide the defects that didnt get removed, but then that wears off, and you see the defects again..
I have used about every product for about 40+ years now, and they have all gotten way better.
But to me, at this stage, for my needs, Zaino works best, last longest, and gives me great UV and paint protection..
Good luck with your project - let us know how it goes! DanF

tt061880

I have to agree with Stokdgs. I also have both the PC7424 and the Flex VG3401 and I will take the Flex over the PC any time. It seem to me that the PC vibrates more than doing it job. The Flex is MUCH faster at correcting paint.

IMO, for a beginner you should already get the Flex because if you starting to do it yourself, sooner or later you going to want a Flex anyway. If you're scare of messing up your paint then don't use a cutting pad. Use a polishing pad instead. I only use a cutting pad on certain heavy swirls spot.

For products, honestly for a hobbyist all you need are some simple Meguiar's. Meguiar's M105, M205, M21, 2 yellow pads, and 2 black pads. When your skills get better, you can add the cutting pads to your arsenal. Go on Meguiar's forum and do some reading up. So you can learn so much from them, there are so many pro detailers on there. Good luck if you decide to do it yourself.

Lexminster

Very good points, indeed. Thank you for the heads up as I will CERTAINLY take your advice. I went to meet with the detailer today at his shop which has very impressive facilities. It was a huge garage with tons of bright lights hanging from the ceiling as well as lined along the walls at about shoulder and knee height.

I had a 30 to 45 minute conversation and from what I took away was this. The buffing is done in very small sections at a time to allow for the clear coat to sufficiently heat up in the buffing process. He said that most cheaper joints will simply run the buffer quickly over the surface, and resins will fill in scratches giving the illusion of a nice surface. But in reality, all that has been done is to introduce new micro scratches while still leaving the old ones. He also pointed out that car detailers who work outside can introduce dust and particles into the buffing process which is a bad thing. Logically this makes sense to me despite my inexperience.

He told me this process would take a full day because my car, although in good shape had micro scratches everywhere. And from looking at the car, he knew that someone had buffed it before and showed me the swirl marks that they had actually introduced while buffing . He even went as far as to say, "let me guess, your dealer did this". And sadly I had to say "yes" .

He then went to say that dealers are the worst at buffing/detailing because it's all about turn around...get the car in, give it just enough to "look good" and then send it on its merry way.

After the buffing, the car is then wiped down with denatured alcohol to remove any of the resins that was left behind from the buffing process. Then under the bright lights, the car is examined again as the alcohol will strip away everything and expose the paint's true shape.

If all is well, then the car gets a nice wash, then a three step Zaino wax job to bring out the "oomph" as he described it and give it a "fresh off the assembly line" shine. He said it wasn't humanly possible to remove all scratches, but that he could get really close.

So all in all, I was impressed with his knowledge and passion for his trade. I must admit, my little IS was small potatoes next to the cars in his garage (Lambo, vintage porsche, BMW M6), but he told me if he works on my car he wants to get it right so he WOULD NOT BUDGE on the price no matter how hard I tried - which was a good sign to me because he said it's a very involved process and he's not going to cut corners because he stands behind his work. Yes, I know talk is cheap, but he was pretty sincere and I even got to see some work in progress which looked amazing when comparing to buffed to non buffed sections on the cars he was working on.

Now, for those of you who suggest that I buy the equipment and do it myself - I totally agree with you - however, unfortunately I live in an apt and do not have a garage to work in. I also, have Zero experience and my worst fear would be to make matters worse rather than to make them better. I know buffing is probably not rocket science, but I will say that there is definitely technique involved to really maximize the results. I have much respect for artists no matter what the trade, and I can't pretend or even think that I can master anything without ample time and dedication to that field.

I think once I buy a house, and can set up a "garage" then buying such equipment will be a certainty. But given my current situation, I'll probably let the professionals handle this car and just maintain the car as best I can moving forward. Again, my car is an every day driving car - it comes down to a balancing act between how much effort do I want to put in to keeping the car "flawless" vs. the everyday realities of owning a car which is driven in a dusty environment such as Scottsdale, AZ.

I will certainly ask him for proof of insurance and photo documentation of the process as well. I'll keep you guys posted and will have before and after photos for your viewing pleasure.

Thank you again for your time, advice, and camaraderie

Big Mack

iTrader: (1)

I don't know...if he's buffing it enough to heat up the clear coat, I'd be rather concerned that a small mistake would burn through to the paint. Then he's paying for a repaint on the affected area. I've done quite a bit of detailing in the past (not nearly as much as stok or jfel...sheesh!!), and I've always had excellent results when removing a "dealer detail" from a car.

The price he's quoting seems fairly reasonable, as it is a lot of work, but certainly a job you can do for yourself if you had the space. You're right in that it takes time and skill, and learning from people who know is a good way to get started. It's not overly complicated, but there are things you can do to save yourself time and aggravation.

You're missing on key thing, though...where the hell are the pics??

Big Mack

PS...did you buy from Scottsdale Lex?

TrendyTodd

iTrader: (6)

Rotary buffers cause heat and friction to level out the paint. Although its dangerous, it is the only way to prepare the surface for your LSP (last step product). Orbitals "can" do the job, but take alot longer to heat up the surface.

lexusscturbo

iTrader: (12)

the new KBrown method works quite well though with an orbital

jfelbab

The only troubling concept espoused by your detailer is that of heat. Heat is not what is removing swirls and scratches. The process of using an abrasive product, (aka polish) with an abrasive pad removes paint. Swirls and scratches are paint defects and heat does not make the clear reflow to fill these defects. Heat is a byproduct of the friction generated by the pad and polish removing paint. It is most desirable to not have the paint heat up too much. To remove the swirls and scratches you grind down the paint film so that it is at the level of the bottom of the scratch or swirl. This is difficult to do by hand and much easier to do with a PC or rotary. Heat is not part of the solution.

That said, if the detailer is generating good results with his processes and his price is about right then you might well do just fine.

I would suggest that you also consider future washing and drying techniques to minimize incurring these defects going forward. These swirls are so very easy to incur and so very difficult to remove. It is much better to expend extra effort to minimize them in the first place. Regular washing with the two bucket method using grit guards, clean, genuine sheepskin wash mitts, low pressure sheeting and waffle weave drying methods, will go a long way towards reducing the inevitable swirls.

I know that this can be difficult for apartment living. You might also consider using a totally touchless auto wash if you must but follow up with a QD and plush MF after. You might also use a Quick Wax after every other wash to refresh your paint protection. This will tend to keep your paint slick and make the car easier to keep clean.

Shank2117

I have been detailing for about 4 years now and that shop does actually sound like they know what they are doing.

i would leave my car with them.