retrodrive

I was trying various products on the hood of my beater Civic (still has great paint) before I use it on my new paint on a Lexus. I am not really satisfied with results so could you give me an idea of what is it I am doing wrong?

First of all I washed the hood as well as I could. Then I clayed it with Pinnacle clay bar using plenty of Pinnacle lubricant. The surface has become smooth to touch, like a glass so I guess that worked well. I washed the hood again and then whipped out that 3M fine scratch remover. I followed the instruction on the bottle and rubbed the liquid in circular motion (cotton terry cloth) till the paint started to squeak. Once I did the whole hood, I rubbed the leftovers off with terry cloth towel (the scratch remover was dry on some parts of the hood). It removed some of the scratches but there were still plenty left. I used S100 wax to finish everything off and it got a little better then it was before claying but it still had some scratches and the paint was not as shiny as I have expected.

Questions: What did I do wrong? Do I need an electric buffer and how hard is it to use it. My car will be buffed at my body shop so there will be no fine scratches so the question is how do I keep it that way? Do I need some paint protestant product?

Thx in advance.

Guitarman

My first advice would be to rub in short straight back/ forth lines when using the scratch remover, not circles. The reason you do this is because scratches and swirls caused from circular motions can be seen from EVERY angle, straight line scratches are only visible from one angle. It's best to compound in the direction of the visible scratch(es) also. This is a general buffing rule if done by HAND and it applies to compounding, waxing etc. as well as buffing material off with a cotton rag. You should even wash your car this way to reduce circular swirls.

Some other tips on compounding that may help with your stubborn residue; Make sure car paint is cool, and you're not in the sun. Spritz the panel with a quick detailer to help add lubricity to the panel that has compound residue on it- this will also help the leftover compound from creating swirls during removal (yes, this happens).

Next, you should NEVER go right from a scratch remover compound (I call it a "compound" since -if it's gritty enough to remove scratches you can see, it falls into the "rubbing compound" category) to a wax. You need a "polishing compound" in between. I.E. ;

1) Rubbing compound (removes scratches, oxidation etc)

2). Polishing compound (Also can be called a "Swirl Remover ) which polishes out the fine scratches and swirls and hazing caused by the use of a rubbing compound. This is always necessary, ESPECIALLY if the car is a dark color. Your shine and gloss will come back after this step.

3) wax or sealant

In essence you're trading large scratches for smaller less obvious scratches whenever you decide to do scratch removal or paint cleaning, and you do it by starting with heavier grit compounds followed by finer grit compounds.

Lastly, a word about any "Scratch Remover" product. I believe the average Joe is misled by the the abilities of these products and what they actually require in order to achieve their goal. They have to be worked, and worked , and worked some more,with a lot of effort, to cut paint by hand. The reason a pro uses a rotary buffer is that the compounds are aided by the machine's focused heat on one point, and speed. This heat actually softens the paint, while it breaks down the compounds. Add in a pad made specifically to "cut" paint, and the combo will remove stuff fast. This is good if you know what you're doing, can be bad if you don't.
These just do not apply with work by hand the same way, your hand simply can't generate enough heat to soften the paint, and you also can't apply pressure as evenly as a 8" or 10" pad can. So all you have going for you then is the level of abrasive grit to remove the paint, and this takes repeated applictions and MUSCLE.

It CAN be done by hand, but not simply by a 1x step. Most swirls and scratches will laugh at you for trying. It's just a matter of knowing the physics of what's involved. A car done this way by hand can actually take ALL DAY LONG. I always say, if they put that info on the labels of some of these products in Pep Boys, they wouldn't sell many, lol.

Try it again , but do each compounding/ scratch removal step multiple times, then polish it at least 2x, to see noticeable results. Do a small area of a panel, maybe 1ft x 1ft or 2 ft, at a time. This will quickly show you what progress you're making, and how much you need to adjust and repeat the process. It's going to depend on how deep/ severe these scratches are in order to fully remove them. If you're still not happy, and this is something important to you that you see yourself doing regularly, invest in and learn to use a rotary buffer. It's dangerous if you're not trained properly, but if you are...there's nothing you can't do really, in a fraction of the time as by hand.

As far as your Lex, when you get it back from the shop, all it should need (if they've done their job right ) is wax.

I would simply wash it to remove any polishing residue and wax it.

Good luck, hope this helps.

retrodrive

This actually helps the whole lot, thank you very much for the detailed writeup!

I am somewhat good with dremmel polishing pad and a rotary sender. I am wondering how much different/harder is it to use a rotary buffer. I have read a lot about them and how to work with them but it is always good to get some professional tips. What is the ammount of preassure should I put on the buffer (I am a strong guy)? What is a good buffer that I can purchase and what rotatation speed would I need to use? I will be trying it out on my Civic s if I mess u it's ok, I am just afraid to mess up bad. Thanks in advance.

RON430

Guitarman gave a lot of good advice. For being an amateur, I have come to love the Porter Cable. There are a couple of part numbers but it is an random oscillating orbital and does a great job. I am not saying, like Guitarman, that you can't do it by hand but it is not trivial with the power tool, it is a huge amount of work by hand. I use the Griot machine polishes, three different grades, and inevitably start with the finest and see how it does. Then progressively go coarser (more cutting action) to get scratches/swirls out without going through the paint. Practicing on the Honda is the only way to go, just be patient. Good detailers deserve a lot of respect for their skill (Bad ones should be run out of town on a rail). Most would not use the Porter Cable as it is too slow but it is a lot safer for the amateur and gives extremely good results.

As for how much pressure to use, you really don't put any pressure at all. The weight of the polisher is normally enough. You just steer the thing. The speed of the pad, the composition of the pad, and the compound do the cutting, not your muscles. Getting the paint smooth (the glass like feel which comes from not having many peaks and valleys, just smooth surface) is the desired goal but scratches can still exist and need to be taken down. If you get to the point where you are worried about going through the paint, which will ruin your whole day, better to stop and try something like Zaino which does have about the best ability to fill in any minor scratches that are left.

Having said all that, I go back to the point that there is nothing like practicing on a beater. If you search on the Porter Cable polisher, you should turn up a couple of threads about where to get them and prices, seems to me you can order it through Home Depot which is a lot cheaper than Griot (around $200).

Guitarman

I often forget to mention the D/A polisher such as Porter Cable's, as a decent compromise, and I have one too.

I'm just usually grabbing my rotary to take car of most things I come across in my work and on my cars. But yes, they will be a go-between in the gap between hand and rotary buffing, and they are safe for the novice.

I wouldn't recommend them for heavy paint removal and deep scratches , but for everything from swirl removal to polishing and waxing they do work excellent. Beats doing it by hand .

RON430

Pure rotary ain't for us amateurs, boss. If the PC doesn't do it, I would go to a pro anyway.

retrodrive

You guys have been tremendous help! I will grab a Porter Cable rotary and grt to practicing! At least now I know what I am doing