btanchors

Based on comments in this group as well as comments I read in Consumer Reports, I am thinking about using Zymol Cleaner Wax on my new GS430 this weekend. However, I read on the Zymol web site the following:

"apply a generous amount of Cleaner Wax evenly to a two or three square foot section with a straight-line, side-to-side movement.
Note: Do not use a circular motion when spreading Cleaner Wax. "

Any idea why a circular motion is not recommended? That's how I've applied all waxes and polishes in the past to my other automobiles...What is it about a circular motion that is not recommended?

Daddy-O

Anytime you are touching or rubbing your paint you can cause swirl marks. Swirl marks are actually microscopic scratches in the finish. Swirls can be caused by the use of a buffer with the wrong type of polishing pad and/or wax. Automatic car washes can also cause swirls, especially on late model vehicles with clear coat paints.

Another way to cause swirl marks is hand application, or removal of products using a harsh material. Pads and cloths that with micro abrasives (from falling on the ground or improper storage) are also a cause of swirls marks. To avoid swirls, thoroughly wash all dirt particles from your finish before applying polish or wax. Always use a quality microfiber towel or 100% terry cloth towel (Made in USA) because its nap draws any contaminants on the surface into the towel instead of allowing them to scratch the sensitive paint. Zymol Cleaner wax has chemical abrasives and can, when paired with a poor quality applicator or buffing towel, can create circular swirls.

Rubbing in a circular motion exacerbates the problem. Straight line buffing/polishing, with the direction of the airflow over the car, can only create these microscratches in one direction, therefore they will be less noticeable at certain angles.


Look carefully at your paint on a sunny day. Look particularly at darker cars. You'll see the microscratches I mention.

Here's a pic:

btanchors

Hi Daddy-O,

Thanks for your response....It all makes sense, but what puzzles me is that other Cleaner-Waxes seem to specifically recommend a circular, overlapping motion when applying the product. From my reading, it doesn't sound like Zymol is any more or less abrasive than other cleaner-waxes, which is why I asked the question...

Guitarman

Some of the other companys are still holding onto what what they've always done, for various reasons-

maybe they think people won't buy their products if a new technique is recommended, because perhaps people may somehow think of it as "harder" to do and will go towards products that say circular is fine...

-maybe they don't think it makes much difference or that the "Average Joe" will care about the difference.

-maybe they just haven't thought it through enough like enthusiasts have...

There are many things you have to use common sense about with car care products, and not just follow directions. For instance, if you were to spray Armor All onto your dash, it would get all over your glass and and also onto the clear plastic speedo lens, and permanently stain the lens, ruining it. I could cite more such caveats, but you get the idea.


Daddy-O is correct though, it's axiomatic really; scratches & swirls that are fairly straight can only be seen from a certain angle , while circular/oval shaped swirls can be viewed from any angle within 360 degrees. Detailers have always tried to impress this on the general public, but old habits die hard. People don't find it "natural" and it's awkward at first. That doesn't mean it's wrong though.

Anytime you wash your car, clay your car, dry your car. polish your car or wax your car, - straight back & forth ( as big D said-they way air flows over the car) is the best way to minimize micro marring of the paint. The LEAST amount of pressure is also key when doing any of the above.

This is certainly an enthusiast's view of the matter, and it all comes down to how picky you are about detailing. The "Average Joe" indeed probably doesn't care about the distinction between the 2 techniques. Cheers.

RON430

One more comment, the cleaner-waxes are a combo product with both cleaners and waxes (duh). The cleaners are inevitably abrasives put in to help remove surface oxidation. The abrasives are what have the possibility of putting in (and in a perverse spin on reality, remove) the swirl marks. Can't speak for the gurus here but I prefer to use a cleaner or polish to clean the surface and a wax as a protectant. So, if I am going to prep the surface, I remove old protectant, use a clay bar, and polish if necessary, and then apply a protectant, a wax. Zymol waxes are generally all abrasive free with the exception of that cleaner-wax that is sold in almost all auto parts stores. Not saying you can't get good results with it, but I would prefer to use a cleaner (usually with abrasives) for pre waxing and then use a wax that is abrasive free, and it makes multiple coats better if you think about it. Most auto parts stores also all sell at a minimum Meguair's and Mother's products that sell separate cleaners and waxes. Getting good results with the pre-cleaner can take a lot of elbow grease (and is another topic) and then both Mother's and Meguiar's sell pretty reasonable waxes. Unless you start to go down the gourmet protectant path, and you really need to think twice before doing that. That's when the fanaticism starts.