2jzGTE SCs - The Siblings of my Supra MKIV Toys
10-29-17, 10:56 AM
#4186
^^^ keeping the two Tial Blow Off Valves where they are because they are pretty where they are right now and the PSSSTT sound will be loudest there .. 
If I get caught on a heavy rainstorm while using the car which will be very rare, since I am not gonna be boosting on wet roads anyway , I will get into a gas station or secured place ...remove the Tial BOVs and cap them off so water won't get in
Below you will find the available caps for the Tial BOVs
If I get caught on a heavy rainstorm while using the car which will be very rare, since I am not gonna be boosting on wet roads anyway , I will get into a gas station or secured place ...remove the Tial BOVs and cap them off so water won't get in
Below you will find the available caps for the Tial BOVs
10-29-17, 02:44 PM
#4187
Blow off valves if you have observed them while opening or closing do not react instantly ..specially closing and that is compounded by their distance from vacuum source connected on top. The one further reacts slower . On top of that , you probably have heard of blow off valve getting stucked open. Even at idle .. no boost , while on a stop light , play with the TB and that BOV opens and closes if you don't have the right spring setup.
Just take that scenario of closing down which is not instant .. no pressure going out , you are running against a heavy rainstorm , puddle of water on the streets and coupled with strong wind ... how much water will get into that wide open BOV while it is open even if it is only an instant (not even stucked open or lag caused by vacuum source) and you have two of them right there infront of the bumper opening .. that can be catastrophic depending on the amount of water that gets in.. that is not mere tiny moisture.
In fact with some googling , I've read some real experience of water ingestion through the BOV.
Just take that scenario of closing down which is not instant .. no pressure going out , you are running against a heavy rainstorm , puddle of water on the streets and coupled with strong wind ... how much water will get into that wide open BOV while it is open even if it is only an instant (not even stucked open or lag caused by vacuum source) and you have two of them right there infront of the bumper opening .. that can be catastrophic depending on the amount of water that gets in.. that is not mere tiny moisture.
In fact with some googling , I've read some real experience of water ingestion through the BOV.
10-29-17, 08:16 PM
#4188
Blow off valves if you have observed them while opening or closing do not react instantly ..specially closing and that is compounded by their distance from vacuum source connected on top. The one further reacts slower . On top of that , you probably have heard of blow off valve getting stucked open. Even at idle .. no boost , while on a stop light , play with the TB and that BOV opens and closes if you don't have the right spring setup.
Just take that scenario of closing down which is not instant .. no pressure going out , you are running against a heavy rainstorm , puddle of water on the streets and coupled with strong wind ... how much water will get into that wide open BOV while it is open even if it is only an instant (not even stucked open or lag caused by vacuum source) and you have two of them right there infront of the bumper opening .. that can be catastrophic depending on the amount of water that gets in.. that is not mere tiny moisture.
In fact with some googling , I've read some real experience of water ingestion through the BOV.
Just take that scenario of closing down which is not instant .. no pressure going out , you are running against a heavy rainstorm , puddle of water on the streets and coupled with strong wind ... how much water will get into that wide open BOV while it is open even if it is only an instant (not even stucked open or lag caused by vacuum source) and you have two of them right there infront of the bumper opening .. that can be catastrophic depending on the amount of water that gets in.. that is not mere tiny moisture.
In fact with some googling , I've read some real experience of water ingestion through the BOV.
Last edited by JoeBlob; 10-29-17 at 08:21 PM.
10-31-17, 03:53 PM
#4189
I have had one tial down there in the opening and been out in the rain plenty of times and it wasn't an issue, also snow wasn't either.
You won't be boosting that hard in the rain due to traction and it really takes a large amount of water to do anything to the engine, the bov or even 2 wont take in that much water unless you go through standing water... even then if its quick just stay on the throttle... not saying bad things can't happen but If the rains that bad I would think its a good idea to just pull over at the closest bar
I've actually sprayed water into the engine when I was trying to remove carbon deposits a few times, and it takes a good amount of water spraying to even make the engine stumble, especially if its revved up some... I was spraying right into the throttle body too on a FFIM lol, no problems and steam cleans the deposits out quite well.
Those Tials would be the ones to worry about more being a push type bov, but if you are running a stiffer spring for higher boost pressures (I assume everything Gerrb builds sees higher boost pressures), then it won't open much at idle. if you are running a soft spring, that thing will be opening and closing all the time. if it opens too easily at idle just pop it open and throw a washer under the spring until you get the right reaction.
I've seen quite a few cars (a number of gtr's with maf's even) that had way too soft springs to get that flutter type noise when you blip the throttle... It sounds cool I guess but you want them closed at idle or you will have a split second delay when getting on the throttle you are just pushing air out instead of compressing. Also when it opens when it shouldn't its affecting the map readings and makes the o2 sensor adjust usually incorrectly, its not a huge deal at idle but I always like them to have the spring adjusted to be closed and not open on a slight throttle blip, but open after boost when the pressure difference overcomes the spring.
IF you really want them to be staggered in opening, just make one stiffer than the other. I would probably shim the cold side with a washer or 2 to be stiffer (or change the spring, tial has lots of spring choices depending on the idle vac you pull), that way it will take more boost pressure to open the stiffer spring (cause its the difference between vac pulled at idle vs the boost pressure in the charge pipe, so even when not changing idle vac the springs affect when it opens according to boost also), so at low to mid boost the one with the softer spring will open first while the second one with the stiffer spring might not even open at all. When you reach a higher boost level then let off both will open but the one with the softer spring should be a hair quicker, assuming the first one doesn't relieve the pressure so fast the second one never opens which is also a possibility so I would keep the spring rates pretty close between the 2.
I would be more worried about water collecting in the intercooler over time when running it on the hot side.
I have always had mine on the cold side, but I would think it would make its way into the engine as steam sooner or later.
If you were running the ssqv or a pull type bov, those would be even more secure as they don't open as randomly when not in boost due to throttle fluctuations.
You won't be boosting that hard in the rain due to traction and it really takes a large amount of water to do anything to the engine, the bov or even 2 wont take in that much water unless you go through standing water... even then if its quick just stay on the throttle... not saying bad things can't happen but If the rains that bad I would think its a good idea to just pull over at the closest bar
I've actually sprayed water into the engine when I was trying to remove carbon deposits a few times, and it takes a good amount of water spraying to even make the engine stumble, especially if its revved up some... I was spraying right into the throttle body too on a FFIM lol, no problems and steam cleans the deposits out quite well.
Those Tials would be the ones to worry about more being a push type bov, but if you are running a stiffer spring for higher boost pressures (I assume everything Gerrb builds sees higher boost pressures), then it won't open much at idle. if you are running a soft spring, that thing will be opening and closing all the time. if it opens too easily at idle just pop it open and throw a washer under the spring until you get the right reaction.
I've seen quite a few cars (a number of gtr's with maf's even) that had way too soft springs to get that flutter type noise when you blip the throttle... It sounds cool I guess but you want them closed at idle or you will have a split second delay when getting on the throttle you are just pushing air out instead of compressing. Also when it opens when it shouldn't its affecting the map readings and makes the o2 sensor adjust usually incorrectly, its not a huge deal at idle but I always like them to have the spring adjusted to be closed and not open on a slight throttle blip, but open after boost when the pressure difference overcomes the spring.
IF you really want them to be staggered in opening, just make one stiffer than the other. I would probably shim the cold side with a washer or 2 to be stiffer (or change the spring, tial has lots of spring choices depending on the idle vac you pull), that way it will take more boost pressure to open the stiffer spring (cause its the difference between vac pulled at idle vs the boost pressure in the charge pipe, so even when not changing idle vac the springs affect when it opens according to boost also), so at low to mid boost the one with the softer spring will open first while the second one with the stiffer spring might not even open at all. When you reach a higher boost level then let off both will open but the one with the softer spring should be a hair quicker, assuming the first one doesn't relieve the pressure so fast the second one never opens which is also a possibility so I would keep the spring rates pretty close between the 2.
I would be more worried about water collecting in the intercooler over time when running it on the hot side.
I have always had mine on the cold side, but I would think it would make its way into the engine as steam sooner or later.
If you were running the ssqv or a pull type bov, those would be even more secure as they don't open as randomly when not in boost due to throttle fluctuations.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 10-31-17 at 04:10 PM.
10-31-17, 04:28 PM
#4190
^^^ .. they are staying where they are right now . They look good right there .. hahaha
I already have replaced the original springs to -8 psi spring pressures on those Tial BOVs since the 3.4L stroker motor I am moving from one of the MKIVs to this car has around -12in/hg of vacuum at idle with 280 cams. It was dynoed at +1260rwhp with a Gen 1 PT-7685 . I will use a Gen 2 PT-8385 to get to my goal of 1400-1500rwhp.
It will really be rare am sure I will get caught using it when it is raining. It will be the cream of the crop so it will be babied .. hahaha . Besides , true , you will be driving like a grand pa on rainy days if ever .. no boosting since you got no traction.
You still installing a 2JZ on that corvette ?
.. they are staying where they are right now . They look good right there .. hahahaI already have replaced the original springs to -8 psi spring pressures on those Tial BOVs since the 3.4L stroker motor I am moving from one of the MKIVs to this car has around -12in/hg of vacuum at idle with 280 cams. It was dynoed at +1260rwhp with a Gen 1 PT-7685 . I will use a Gen 2 PT-8385 to get to my goal of 1400-1500rwhp.
It will really be rare am sure I will get caught using it when it is raining. It will be the cream of the crop so it will be babied .. hahaha . Besides , true , you will be driving like a grand pa on rainy days if ever .. no boosting since you got no traction.
You still installing a 2JZ on that corvette ?
10-31-17, 05:26 PM
#4191
Nah my common sense kicked in strong and I decided I will drop a LS1 or LS2 w/t56 in it and call it a day.. It will be enough work to get that done and the value will go up too.
That car attracts way too much attention to be a car I can actually open up on the road without constantly worrying about it.
I decided to keep my eye out for a good deal on a SC430 (black or red on black) and that will be my next 2JZ toy... which might end up replacing the Audi.
That car attracts way too much attention to be a car I can actually open up on the road without constantly worrying about it.
I decided to keep my eye out for a good deal on a SC430 (black or red on black) and that will be my next 2JZ toy... which might end up replacing the Audi.
11-01-17, 03:55 PM
#4192
An LS V8 in your '71 Stingray will be great, Ali. It will always be an attention-getting car... but everything about that generation of Corvette is special.
Gerry, glad to hear you will be keeping the BOV's in their current placement so long as there is really no issue with water ingestion. I am biased but when a build gets to where you are taking it I love a little flair for the dramatic besides just the extremely high horsepower
Last edited by KahnBB6; 11-01-17 at 04:03 PM.
11-01-17, 05:21 PM
#4193
Ali - good decision ... keep it all original Chevy and its value will eventually be higher .
Craig - seriously , those BOVs are driving me nuts
. I know you want it all stock looking without any fanfare . I can't make up my mind on them. Part of me want to leave them there cause they look good and part of me want them hidden for safety reason.
Tial BOVs are (partly) open on idle since they are controlled by the vacuum from the manifold. Being on that bumper opening , on idle while on stop lights with partly opened BOVs , you ingest dirt , water and whatever can fit into those opening . You can use stiffer springs (and go against the Tial recommended spring based on your vacuum) but you have to remember that at idle ,your throttle body is closed .. but your turbo is still blowing air .. so that air has to go out somewhere or there will be return shockwave towards your compressor wheels.
I have spent countless hours today looking into that engine bay deciding where to put those two BOVs
. I might have to find a place for them on the cold pipe before the throttle body.
Craig - seriously , those BOVs are driving me nuts
. I know you want it all stock looking without any fanfare . I can't make up my mind on them. Part of me want to leave them there cause they look good and part of me want them hidden for safety reason.Tial BOVs are (partly) open on idle since they are controlled by the vacuum from the manifold. Being on that bumper opening , on idle while on stop lights with partly opened BOVs , you ingest dirt , water and whatever can fit into those opening . You can use stiffer springs (and go against the Tial recommended spring based on your vacuum) but you have to remember that at idle ,your throttle body is closed .. but your turbo is still blowing air .. so that air has to go out somewhere or there will be return shockwave towards your compressor wheels.
I have spent countless hours today looking into that engine bay deciding where to put those two BOVs
. I might have to find a place for them on the cold pipe before the throttle body.
11-02-17, 04:49 AM
#4194
Gerry, truly I'm only expressing my lighthearted opinion about this as an enthusiast of your cars No matter what you decide with RM2 it will make for an awesome and impressive SC!
Being honest under hood placement of the BOV's doesn't matter... you will still have two massive BOV's that can be heard no matter what you do. One is right out in front and the other is very stealth. As cool as it is to keep them in the bumper if it were me I would go with whatever serves the best safe function first with all other considerations secondary. No matter where they go you will still have two of them and they WILL be heard
I don't know how your RM2 engine bay looks now but I can vaguely picture the BOV's on that side. You're probably right because you won't have much room on the intake side anyway. I am sure you have a big aftermarket manifold with the 120-degree throttle body that makes things even tighter than it is with a normal GTE.
No matter what you decide with RM2 it will make for an awesome and impressive SC!Being honest under hood placement of the BOV's doesn't matter... you will still have two massive BOV's that can be heard no matter what you do. One is right out in front and the other is very stealth. As cool as it is to keep them in the bumper if it were me I would go with whatever serves the best safe function first with all other considerations secondary. No matter where they go you will still have two of them and they WILL be heard
I don't know how your RM2 engine bay looks now but I can vaguely picture the BOV's on that side. You're probably right because you won't have much room on the intake side anyway. I am sure you have a big aftermarket manifold with the 120-degree throttle body that makes things even tighter than it is with a normal GTE.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 11-02-17 at 03:55 PM. Reason: typo correction
11-02-17, 09:45 AM
#4195
You're considering letting go of that beautiful AWD TT 6-speed Audi? You worked so hard to get it finished! Don't get me wrong though... I'm not trying to discourage a 2JZ turbo swapped SC430
An LS V8 in your '71 Stingray will be great, Ali. It will always be an attention-getting car... but everything about that generation of Corvette is special.
An LS V8 in your '71 Stingray will be great, Ali. It will always be an attention-getting car... but everything about that generation of Corvette is special.
Thanks, yeah I am going to do a really intensive overhaul/engine swap on the vette so I am going to hold off until I get a more permanent garage.
who knows if I find the right place I may go back to 4 car status
Ali - good decision ... keep it all original Chevy and its value will eventually be higher .
Craig - seriously , those BOVs are driving me nuts. I know you want it all stock looking without any fanfare . I can't make up my mind on them. Part of me want to leave them there cause they look good and part of me want them hidden for safety reason.
Tial BOVs are (partly) open on idle since they are controlled by the vacuum from the manifold. Being on that bumper opening , on idle while on stop lights with partly opened BOVs , you ingest dirt , water and whatever can fit into those opening . You can use stiffer springs (and go against the Tial recommended spring based on your vacuum) but you have to remember that at idle ,your throttle body is closed .. but your turbo is still blowing air .. so that air has to go out somewhere or there will be return shockwave towards your compressor wheels.
I have spent countless hours today looking into that engine bay deciding where to put those two BOVs . I might have to find a place for them on the cold pipe before the throttle body.
Craig - seriously , those BOVs are driving me nuts
. I know you want it all stock looking without any fanfare . I can't make up my mind on them. Part of me want to leave them there cause they look good and part of me want them hidden for safety reason.Tial BOVs are (partly) open on idle since they are controlled by the vacuum from the manifold. Being on that bumper opening , on idle while on stop lights with partly opened BOVs , you ingest dirt , water and whatever can fit into those opening . You can use stiffer springs (and go against the Tial recommended spring based on your vacuum) but you have to remember that at idle ,your throttle body is closed .. but your turbo is still blowing air .. so that air has to go out somewhere or there will be return shockwave towards your compressor wheels.
I have spent countless hours today looking into that engine bay deciding where to put those two BOVs
. I might have to find a place for them on the cold pipe before the throttle body.I don't think the chassis or rear end could handle an APU 2JZ without replacing everything, and even then top end power in that car would be scary it feels like 120mph at 70mph right now.
I like to setup the tial where its just a hair closed at idle, I am not sure what tial recommends but I tried every combination of springs and washers and that is what I liked best.
Open air wouldn't be good no matter where it is cause its all unfiltered, and it will gunk up that bov piston much faster.. clean.. regrease.. gets old.
They are very loud down there, but kinda fun
You could always go with that duck call BOV!!
11-11-17, 02:17 PM
#4198
I figured that the 3.4L Stroker 6speed Ultimate SC Sleeper should have at least same if not better fuel system than my other SC that has the Weldon 2345a and Denso Pumps . Today I did work on the fuel system and the battery relocation . It was time to ditch the stock sound system and install an after market sound system later. Found a good battery tray .. cheap and yet perfect for my needs. I did install also a charcoal canister on my -12an tank vent. The Weldon 2345a needs a vent as big as the fuel feed which is -12 and on top of it , I have 3 denso pumps so a real good vent is needed otherwise the tank could collapse. I hate fuel smell so I had to install a charcoal canister and past it vented with a filter under the car. I also made sure that I still have my reserve tire and tools on this car since I have plans of using it for long distance travels .
This fuel setup of a Weldon 2345a with 3 Denso TT pumps can easily support 2000rwhp on E85. On my other SC with the Weldon 2345 and denso pumps, my feed to the front is only -10an . This setup is -12an all the way to the front since it is feeding two fuel rails and 12 injectors plus the nitrous fuel solenoid.
This fuel setup of a Weldon 2345a with 3 Denso TT pumps can easily support 2000rwhp on E85. On my other SC with the Weldon 2345 and denso pumps, my feed to the front is only -10an . This setup is -12an all the way to the front since it is feeding two fuel rails and 12 injectors plus the nitrous fuel solenoid.
11-13-17, 10:04 AM
#4199
To answer someone's question how big is the tank vent should be ? It should be as big as the size of your fuel feed , minimum . The amount of fuel evacuated by your fuel pump should be replaced with air through the tank vent or else your tank will collapse because of vacuum. Stock feed is somewhere around -5an that is why the stock vent is almost same size.
On my end, my fuel feed on this Ultimate Sleeper Project is -12an that is why I have a -12an fitting as my vent. Inside the tank on that fitting , I have installed a -12an roll-over valve so if the car rolls over, fuel will not flow out. I have used the later SCs charcoal canister so fuel fumes / smells can be caught. Without a charcoal canister , when a car sit in your garage especially during summer , you will have fuel smell inside that garage. The other end of the second hose of the canister goes to the bottom of the car with an air filter so dirt can't get in. If you want to divert that back to the engine just like the stock setup , you can . But venting it to the atmosphere , based on experience as long as you have the charcoal canister , you won't have bad fuel smell as compared to one without.
On my end, my fuel feed on this Ultimate Sleeper Project is -12an that is why I have a -12an fitting as my vent. Inside the tank on that fitting , I have installed a -12an roll-over valve so if the car rolls over, fuel will not flow out. I have used the later SCs charcoal canister so fuel fumes / smells can be caught. Without a charcoal canister , when a car sit in your garage especially during summer , you will have fuel smell inside that garage. The other end of the second hose of the canister goes to the bottom of the car with an air filter so dirt can't get in. If you want to divert that back to the engine just like the stock setup , you can . But venting it to the atmosphere , based on experience as long as you have the charcoal canister , you won't have bad fuel smell as compared to one without.
Last edited by gerrb; 11-13-17 at 10:16 AM.
12-15-17, 06:12 AM
#4200
Posted this at 97-SC300 build thread since I know he had Work Meister S3 3 pieces in the past.but posting this here too so if anyone can help and chime in , it will be great.
For those who had experiences with Work Meister S3 3 piece , I would appreciate it if one can help me out determine if the O-Disk clear the 6 pot Brembo BBKs ? What about the fronts , will the A-Disk clear 6 pot Brembo BBKs ?
No point of working on my Ultimate SC Sleeper to make it fast with 1500rwhp / 1000ft.lbs if it can't put the power to the ground and I can't stop it .
Am looking at getting 19x12.5" O-Disk Offset 23 to give me a lip of 134mm for the rears and install 345/30R19 Toyo R888
For the fronts... and 19x9.5" A-Disk Offset 29 to give me a lip of 83 and nstall 265/30R19 Toyo R888
Fenders and Strut (Shock) clearances are all good now. I have already pulled those fenders to get those wheels and tire sizes to fit .
Just want to make sure that 6 pots BBKs both front and rear will not hit the spokes of the Work Meister S1
For those who had experiences with Work Meister S3 3 piece , I would appreciate it if one can help me out determine if the O-Disk clear the 6 pot Brembo BBKs ? What about the fronts , will the A-Disk clear 6 pot Brembo BBKs ?
No point of working on my Ultimate SC Sleeper to make it fast with 1500rwhp / 1000ft.lbs if it can't put the power to the ground and I can't stop it
.Am looking at getting 19x12.5" O-Disk Offset 23 to give me a lip of 134mm for the rears and install 345/30R19 Toyo R888
For the fronts... and 19x9.5" A-Disk Offset 29 to give me a lip of 83 and nstall 265/30R19 Toyo R888
Fenders and Strut (Shock) clearances are all good now. I have already pulled those fenders to get those wheels and tire sizes to fit .
Just want to make sure that 6 pots BBKs both front and rear will not hit the spokes of the Work Meister S1
Last edited by gerrb; 12-15-17 at 06:24 AM.