Blkexcoupe

iTrader: (8)

I have no experience with the 6 pot brembos, but A disk won't work in the front.

O Disk - thinnest hub to maximize lips (mainly used in the rear)
A Disk - meant for stock floating calipers
L Disk - thinnest bbk hub
R Disk - will clear most oem monoblock brakes
T Disk - recommended for larger brakes

T disk is the safest bet. The difference between the T disk and R disk is 7mm of additional clearance.

The rears, since our rotors have the parking brake inside it allows most brake upgrades to clear with a O disk rim with plenty of space. On top of that the meister face design is very bbk friendly.

*Edit* After a quick search, I found this
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/arc...t-695091.html?

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

^^^ Thanks but correct me if I am wrong please . The difference between these O A L R T disks is basically the distance of wheel center line from the wheel hub mating surface ?

Thus the lower the offset , regardless of disk type , the farther the spokes are from the calipers and better chances of clearing them ?

Therefore even if I get an A disk , as long as the offset is low...lets say as low as one from a T disk , which pushes the wheel outside (assuming it clears the fender) , I don't really need to get a T disk which offer lower offsets ?

Or does the spoke (convex) have anything to do with it also ?....dang disks type are so confusing ... trying to get as much lips as I can and at the same wanted to clear 15" BBKs

Definitely will go with 19s since .. it will be a stretch to use 18s with the 15" BBKs

Rears : 19x12.5" O-Disk Offset 23 to give me a lip of 134mm ... Tires : 345/30R19 Toyo R888 ... I assume this will clear the rear since the drum brake housing added a 50mm from the rotor surface ?

Fronts : 19x9.5" A-Disk Offset 29 to give me a lip of 83 ... Tires 265/30R19 Toyo R888 ... on a T Disk , with an offset of 30 , I get a 58mm lip , so what will be the difference if the offsets are almost same ?

That thread that was link says only T disk works (front and rear ?) and still need 10mm spacers . Am not running spacers. They will be the last thing I will put on a high hp / high torque car.

Blkexcoupe

iTrader: (8)

Think of disk as having a built in wheel spacer for each disk. The taller the face, the more clearance it has from the hub mating surface to the lowest point on the rim face.

O disk = thinnest hub
A disk = O disk + 7mm spacer
L disk = O disk + 18 mm spacer
R disk = O disk + 24mm spacer
T disk = O disk + 32mm spacer

If you had all 5 faces laid out next to each other on a level surface, the T disk face would be 25mm/1 inch taller than an A disk face.

I have a set of wheels made to clear AMG calipers, and if you look at the center hub for the front (probably a t disk equivalent) it's a lot thicker than the center hub for the rear (o disk equivalent)

Front (High disk/t disk): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9e...=w1688-h949-no

Rear (Low disk/o disk): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Nc...=w1688-h949-no

This would only be true if the A disk face could clear the brakes to begin with.

Spoke design is definitely factored into brake clearance. That's why it's possible for the A disk meister to clear a caliper, but an A disk VS-xx wouldn't come close to clearing the same brakes.


I think you're going to have to abandon your idea of going with meisters. I'm assuming the need for spacers is because the rim is step lip (18" face with a 19" lip/barrel), and the spacers are needed to clear the bolts. I wish I had some 19" meisters to test fit, so I could give you a better answer, but I only have 18" meisters on hand, and I already know those won't fit over 14.9" GS-F brakes.

SpectraBlu

iTrader: (1)

I don't know if this will help but, here's some pictures of my 19" Equip's. One on the left is R disk and left is O disk. I have 2 different barrel sizes and 3 outer lip sizes so if you need more pics of different configurations, let me know.

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help .

After basically a full day of research from different forums, reading posts of owners with Meister S1 and BBKs and vendor's posts and websites , to be able to fit 15" (380mm) Brembo 6 pot brakes for the front and rears I have no choice but to go with the T Disk of the Work Meister S1 3pc . Offsets should be in the low 20s so I don't use any spacers considering the amount of pull I already have on my front fenders and rear quarter panels.

I will have to settle with smaller lips from what I originally like . Trying to get into the 1300-1500rwhp / 1000ft.lbs of torque , braking capabilities of the car would be more important than its looks .

Front : 19x9 +24 T Disk Offset , 2.25" (58mm) lip , Toyo R888 260/30R19
Rear : 19x12 +24 T Disk Offset , 3.75" (96mm) lip , Toyo R888 345/30R19

The following Work Wheel website have educated me a lot about their wheels today :

https://www.work-wheels.co.jp/en/search/guide/

Blkexcoupe

iTrader: (8)

Did your research say that a T disk was necessary in the rear? I would think you'd be able to get away with an A or L disk. There shouldn't be a need to run the same disk front and rear.

Since your brakes are going to be so large, the area in the circles is where your concern should be for brake clearance with the meisters. The step lip design means the face is smaller and the rim has to taper down in the center.


This is an 18" r disk meister, so it's meant to clear most stock bbk, but since it's a step lip design it means the face is 17"


Now the same wheel in the rear has almost double the space between the caliper and the face.

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

All of the 380mm BBKs I have seen on Meister S1 on different forums and as sold by different vendors had the T-Disk . I guess if you use the 332mm , 345mm and 355mm BBKs you can get away with the other Work Wheel disk types as long as you have lower offsets. If you have crazy offset like nearer into the zero or negative or you are not after very wide lips you can use O-Disk .

As you have mentioned , the Meister S1 3pc design has a very friendly bbk spoke design. I still believe it is all about offset (which determines how far you push the spokes away from the calipers / rotors and how wide you want the lip to be. As you have outlined in one of the posts above , the different disk type is basically O-Disk plus the different thickness of spacers and this can be attained by going lower offsets. Your last two pictures clearly depict this . The rear brake drum kinda served as a spacer so you now have more space in between caliper and spoke . This can be further verified from the Work Wheels website info. Looking at the pictures of R , A , O Disks I attached , looks to me the orientation / shape of the spokes among the different disk types is same. After all , what they replace is the inner and outer barrel to get the desired wheel width and the offset is what dictates the size of the lip and position of the wheel in between the strut and fender / panel . What changes is the spacer depth on the hub. To me it seems to confirm that even with O Disks , as long as you choose a very low offset then it will allow you to get very wide lips and clear certain BBKs .


On another note , the other day , Craig (KahnBB6) who came all the way from CA on his way down to FL, spent around 5 hours in my place up North and had a glimpse of this Ultimate SC sleeper project am working on. I have shown him all the best parts one can think of that have already been installed and what else am working on, He called me crazy but it is what it is ... got to be the best SC I have. Just to have an idea , he was amazed by the fuel setup . What else can beat a setup with 3 Denso TT Pumps feeding a -10an fuel line towards a fuel rail that has 6 x 1000cc injectors plus a Weldon 2345a pump feeding a -12an fuel line that goes to another fuel rail that has 6 x 2433cc injectors and both returns of the fuel rails go to the sides of a Weldon 2047 Fuel regulator ? Then , seeing two nitrous bottles feeding my direct port nitrous on every Intake runner and cooling the big boy Titan Motorsports Intercooler I guess was a real treat for him... like a kid on a candy store with eyes wide open in awe .



That is the reason I need to be able to stop this little rocket with a good brake system housed on a strong and good looking wheels . Though I want the looks , it has to come secondary to function and safety.
.

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

SpectraBlule - On your R and O Disks for the Work Equip Wheels , is the difference between the two only the thickness of that hub (aka center spacer ) ... R disk having a thicker one ? All others like spoke angles (concave / convex / straightness) , thickness and everything else same ? I just want to confirm if truly the difference on the disks is basically the depth of that center hub (spacer).

SpectraBlu

iTrader: (1)

I believe it's just the center hub. I'll do some measurements when I get home tonight and let you know

SpectraBlu

iTrader: (1)

So yeah, the only difference is the center hub area on the backside of the wheel. The spokes are the same thickness and flatness. I also measured from where the face mounts between inner barrel and outer lip (first picture) to where the center cap goes, and they're also the same.

I also included pictures with 58mm & 95mm lips, so you can see how they look. Pictures of 58mm lips aren't as easy to find lol. It took me awhile to finally settle on the 58's cause I too wanted bigger lips, but that's the trade off to clear BBK. Like you said, with the beast you're building...big brakes are more important than another inch or two of lip

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Now I have to chime in here, Gerry If I said anything at all to the effect of *you* being "crazy" for building up your RM2 SC with that fuel and turbo system then it's my favorite kind of crazy which I wholeheartedly support What I thought I said at one point was that the car (RM2) itself is insane or crazy, lol. Anyway, you could easily say that I am crazy for doing a totally stock 2JZGTE SC swap part by part, lol

And yes, that fuel system which you previously had in the 97 5-speed body is impressively insane. I mean that in a good way because I find it delightful that such a monster fuel pump and NOS setup all with programmed ECU control exists. I was indeed like a kid in a candy store seeing your progress with it.

The braking system for that SC I do agree has to be very robust. Of all the braking systems available for SC's both aftermarket bolt-on kits and improvised fitment of OEM calipers from other cars I think the Brembo 355mm (fronts) has to be the biggest. But then what rear calipers would match that piston sizing and better maintain front to rear bias? I'm not a huge fan of using a traditional front to rear brake proportioning valve in a street vehicle even with this much horsepower but it might be a consideration also.

From my perspective, even the stock MKIV TT braking system is the minimum for my current non-turbo SC. When I want it to stop, I want it to stop RIGHT NOW. Who knows how I will feel even with a modest 350whp-- I may want to upgrade my braking system yet again even with that low amount of power. Multiply that power figure over four times and you need some serious stopping power in your soon-to-be 1500whp Red Mamba Two. Not messing around when it comes to a very good well sized braking setup is to me a very important thing to factor in.

The most difficult of your dilemmas, which I sympathize with, is your not wishing to open up one of your non-vvt 3.4L engines you'll use as a starting point. But I still say that if you are going all out with the RM2 SC why not open up just the one 3.4L you will use and bolt on a GTE VVT-i head once to give yourself that final edge you want? Since it is the ultimate in everything you want from an all-out built SC I think that is very much worth the extra effort and time to get VVT-i in that car.

I think it makes less sense to bother with that extra work and time just to get VVT-i for the OMT or the other red SC (RM1?) when their engines are already in good shape.

Then again, weren't you planning to keep all of your built 3.4L engines?

Anyway, coming out to your place and hanging out for the afternoon was a lot of fun, Gerry! Always good to catch up with you and to see the current projects And thank you for the couple of extra parts! I've already gone back to work finishing the last things on my GTE engine on the stand. Getting the swap started will happen very soon

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

@SpectraBlu - thank you very much .That is a really good confirmation that basically the center hub depth is what makes the difference on the Work Wheels disks. And of course depending on the wheel width needed , the corresponding inner and outer barrel are mated after the wanted wheel offset is known. I always thought the angle of those spokes played a role too .

@KahnBB6 - Craig , it was indeed a pleasure to have catched up with you . ... I know , it was the setup that you were calling crazy ... was playing with you cause I know you will log in eventually . As you can tell , my mind is wishy washy on which to keep or what to let go or what to modify with my toys . Now that RM2 had a lot of the best parts you can think of , am still wondering why I am tearing apart a good stock running 2jzgte SC300 . It is a never ending dilemma now of deciding , what the hell will I really want to do. On top of it , you see I have to let go a number of my other vehicles. At any rate , I will get there eventually . Maybe I just have to give someone a Good Christmas by selling the 1997 SC300 5 speed or the other stock 2jzGTE SC below market price .

For the brake system , we have the 380mm (14.9") available. I actually have that on one of the MKIV with stroker. The idea was if I am selling that car in stock form then I will move all that brake system into this SC . I will use same wheel and tire size for all four corners , so both front and rear brakes will be squared... and not having smaller calipers at the rear. Toyo R888 tires have been used consistently in the mile long stretch and would handle the abuse of 200mph cars so it is what I will use for this car. As you know got to make a hard decision on that stroker head . Definitely , will go with a VVTi head but question is will I build another engine or just replace the head of one of the strokers I have.

I am pretty sure , you are now busy with your GTE project. Just give me a call or send me a message if you are on a crossroad and needed help. You know , on your way back to CA with that car , you will have to pass by my place in the North or South for me to see that GTE SC .

Blkexcoupe

iTrader: (8)

An O disk would never work in the front, but there is a chance for it in the rear since the hub acts like a built in spacer.

In the front, the 332,345 and 355mm bbk, the areas of concern is in the yellow circle. Since your 380mm brakes are so much larger, the area of concern is the red/orange circles.



This was when I tried fitting my 18" HRE over a set of 14.9" GS-F brakes. the rim couldn't fit over the brakes because the inner diameter was too small, but you can see the point of contact is at the register/bolts.


Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but you can't make a O disk fit like an R disk by changing the lips and barrels. You can only make the O disk fit like an R disk with spacers.

The angle of the spokes will play a role from wheel to wheel, so compare a vs-xx to a meister. For a single type of wheel, the disk is only a change in the hub thickness.

gerrb

iTrader: (34)

I guess I am not making myself clear :

Reason why I asked SpectraBlue to check the difference of his R and O Disks , it was because they are same wheel. I wanted to see all the differences .. apparently it is only the depth of their hubs that differed. It is obvious that different wheels have different spoke designs and consequently angles.

I understand that you cannot use an O disk as an R by just replacing barrels, it will still be an O measurement... simply because the hub depth is still the same . What I am trying to say is , based or assuming that the following premise "difference between disks of same wheel is the hub depth" is true , There is a point in which there is an O disk that will be very close to the hub depth of an R disk as soon as its offset goes nearer to the zero or negative , thus you can use an O instead of an R . I probably am not explaining myself properly .

For the 380mm , indeed a true 19" wheel is necessary because of the length of that caliper . Worst case scenario , I would use the wheels that are also on the MKIV now though they are not the Meister S1 that I wanted though would save me at least $5k .

Blkexcoupe

iTrader: (8)

This is the statement that confuses me. The only time you can use an O disk instead of an R disk is if the clearance necessary from the hub to the highest point on the caliper decreases. An example is the front and rear of our cars. The front, an O disk will never work with any big brakes regardless of size, but in the rear it's possible for an O disk to work with most smaller bbk.

As long as you understand the differences between the disk, that is all that matters. It's the most critical part to getting your wheels to clear those 15" brakes. The last thing I want to see is you spend $5k and have wheels that don't fit.