OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

Install took me about 2 hours, being OC and all, cleaning up the old ones before installing the new.

I did the rear first thinking it was easier, but it required me to remove my mufflers so I can slip out the old and slip in the new, then you have to flip the endlink so it doesn't hit the coil overs/struts when it compresses.

Front just required removing a couple of bolts that hold the plastic piece that wraps around the sway bars and that it.

I used this link as a guide.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/4027024-post6.html

^^^This. If you go MKIV sways, you'll need to relocate the mounting of the rear to the rear subframe rear mounts. Luckily, driftmotion sells a pair that's already been modified and painted, which I was first going to get along with the Tanabe sway bars.
http://store.driftmotion.com/static/...0tomk4rear.php


Thanks! It really is! I'm so happy with the results.

Sways are designed to eliminate body roll when turning, but it also keeps both wheels from moving in different directions. With the stiffer sway bars, instead of the wheels "giving" immediately once I hit a dip, it pulls the wheels together and stiffens it before the coils even rebound.

Got them for $300!

raine

iTrader: (7)

Talking about swaybar movement when going straight - without referring to anything involving turning:

- Yes, when going straight sway bars connect both wheels. But when you're going straight a sway bar isn't supposed to act like a spring in any way whatsoever. Swaybars are supposed to act as if they're not even there when you're going straight, allowing the suspension on either side of the car to function as normal.

When you hit a bump - say, with the left wheel - there should be just enough "twist" or leeway in the sway bar so that it will allow the left side suspension to react to the bump independently, without affecting the right side suspension. Go beyond that leeway point and then both wheels will move at the same time - but that will take a really HUGE bump to make that happen if you're just going straight on the freeway. That or you need a swaybar that is super stiff (and track only).

If your sway bar is "stiffening it before the coils even rebound" like you said, then basically what you're describing is that the swaybar is acting like a spring. If it's acting like a spring then that means that the swaybar isn't rotating freely in the mounting bushings on the chassis.

Now if that is happening, then yes - each side of the swaybar is now acting like a leaf spring - which would alter the movement of your coilovers - but in the big picture would not allow the sway bar to function as it was designed when cornering, because in this situation you have the sway bar ends working independently, and that's not supposed to happen beyond that initial "twist" leeway at the beginning of suspension movement.

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

Not exactly. You forgot about camber. When your suspension compresses, camber pulls both wheels inside, which in turn raises one side of the wheel higher than the other. Given I have 4° of camber up front, the outer side of the wheel reaches the top of the wheel well faster than normal aligned cars. Anyways, the sway bars are contributing because as the camber pulls both wheels toward inside when the suspension compresses, the sway bars push it outward, therefore acting like a spring or some sort. Besides, it's not even supposed to be called "sway" bars in the first place, they're called stabilizer bars.

raine

iTrader: (7)

Sorry man, that's where you're wrong. Sway bars, or more correctly "anti-roll bars" control suspension up/down movement in relation to each other from side to side (left wheel to right wheel). They do not "push" anything outward.

Call me on my cell. It's easier to explain on the phone. School is in session

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

I don't want to loose this debate, wifey's day off we're heading out in a minute! Lol

raine

iTrader: (7)

If you want to lose this debate in private over the phone, or in public here on the forum then that's your choice LOL

CalitriSC

iTrader: (13)

LOL good stuff here

FUZION

iTrader: (2)

definitely

raine

iTrader: (7)

Wait until I post my full reply

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

Going 80mph on the freeway too close to the car before me was a bad idea. The **** run over a garbage bag full of leaves that probably fell off a work truck, and I on the other hand didn't have enough time to swerve away from it, so I ran over it. The thing I feared the most happened right after it. The freaking driveshaft caught the plastic bag and got all tangled up in my differential, it was actually slowing down the car, caused it to vibrate and kept on slamming against the undercarriage.

Good thing there was a Sears auto shop where we went and got it removed immediately at no charge.

raine

iTrader: (7)

No pictures - if you've seen the suspension on an SC300 (most of us have) then this will be easy to understand without any visual references.


BEFORE I BEGIN:
As for what it should be called, "stabilizer bar" can be correct (like you said) but for the application it is more accurately called an "anti-roll bar", because on our cars the specific purpose of the bar is to control roll. Saying "swaybar" or "stabilizer bar" are both also generally correct, though technically incomplete in description. Calling it a "roll stabilizer" or "anti-sway" bar would be correct. That said, for the rest of my explanation I will just use the word "swaybar" to make it easier to type LOL

OK SO:
First of all, on the front suspension design of our cars (or generally any double-A arm configuration) the car's camber - or more specifically "camber gain" or "camber rise" which is what you're referring to - is due to the difference in length of the upper and lower A-arms combined with any offset between the upper and lower spindle ball joint locations. When the front suspension compresses, you get three things happening - ride height is decreased, camber angle is increased, and toe angle is decreased (if you have toe-out) or increased (if you have toe-in).

NOW THEN:
How does a "swaybar" affect camber? It DOESN'T. Unless a swaybar is altering the upper arm length or upper spindle mount position (which is doesn't, because it doesn't even touch either) then it has zero input on camber angle and camber adjustment.

As we all know, the sway bar is connected to the lower control arms (LCAs) but indirectly; meaning that they are not directly bolted to the arm, but they use sway bar links positioned vertically on SEPARATE ENDS of the suspension (left LCA, right LCA). Thus the sway bar's effects on the suspension only occur when the linked suspension arms move SEPARATELY from each other, and the swaybar links give the swaybar a non-rigid rotation point to allow the swaybar to move with the LCA without binding/seizing up.

Normally when you're driving forward and hit a bump, chances are that both left and right suspension will move up and down simultaneously. Whenever the left and right suspension moves simultaneously, the sway bar effects are ZERO - because the sway bar has a pivot point inline with the suspension arms (the two mounting points of the bar on the chassis).

However, if one side of the suspension hits a bump that the other side doesn't, swaybars (both OEM and aftermarket) are always given a small amount of twist leeway - meaning that you can twist the ends of the swaybar in opposite directions just slightly before the swaybar's tension overcomes the twist. So even if you hit a bump with only one wheel, that "twist leeway" will allow the suspension on that one side to operate normally, as if there was no swaybar at all. This is why I said that "swaybars don't work that way" - because a swaybar will not add or subtract suspension stiffness while driving forward, even if you only hit a bump with one wheel. The only time one side of the suspension will compress more than the other side with enough of a difference to make the swaybar affect handling is when turning.

So I'm not sure why you used to rub fender on a certain bump with OEM sways and now with the aftermarket sways you don't - but I am sure that it has nothing to do with the swaybar.

UNLESS:
The only way a swaybar would "add" stiffness to your suspension movement is if the swaybar mounting points on the chassis are binding/seizing up, or too tight. A properly installed swaybar is supposed to move up and down freely within the bushings that are mounted to the chassis. This allows the swaybar itself to move up and down in relation to the suspension movement, which is how it should be, since the only time the swaybar is supposed to affect suspension is when there is a difference in suspension compression between the two wheels - in other words, when you are turning through a corner with enough speed and force to make one side of the suspension (the outer wheel) compress more than the other side of the suspension (the inner wheel).

Now if the chassis mounting points of a swaybar are too tight or seizing/binding, then you get a situation where each end of the swaybar is acting independently from one another. The seizing/binding makes the chassis mounting point a rigid point (opposite of a freely rotating point). With a rigid mounting point on one end of a bar, whenever you move the other end of a bar it will have tension just like a spring. In turn it will add a "spring effect" to that side of the suspension due to having one rigid mounting point (the seized/binding end) and one rotating point (the swaybar link).

An easy example of how this works is with a regular ruler. tape one end of the ruler to a table like a hinge (the pivot point), lift up the other end, and it will be easy and have no tension. Put a large book on top of the taped end and hold it down, try lifting the other end again, and there will be tension because the pivot point is now a rigid point.

If each end of the swaybar is incorrectly operating independently of each other, it is possible that the "spring effect" I described above could alter suspension stiffness and compression/rebound strength independently on each wheel. Then it might explain how your suspension got "stiffer", enough to alter the compression/rebound to keep your wheels from rubbing the inner fender when you hit bumps. Now I'm not saying that your swaybars are installed incorrectly, but if there's any binding/seizing then the swaybar isn't working the way it's supposed to be to begin with, and must be inspected for any potential binding/seizing at the chassis mounting points - anything from overtightened swaybar brackets, un-lubed bushings, undersized bushings (hole in bushing is smaller in diameter than the swaybar outside diameter) may be the cause.

So there you have it.

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

^^^What's with all these clutter on my thread?! Joke! You're right, I studied how it works, I guess, what I felt was all in the mind...

Anyways, I just got my LS rotors in the mail today, I should have the calipers back at the end of next week, I got them repolished... 1 of the rotors beside my size 8 J's...


Also, I stripped the color of the Muteki SR48 lugs I have in preparation to match my polished calipers, the color is stripping anyways, with the slightest tough of the socket when removing them...


And, got my faulty LED's replaced under warranty, didn't know they came with 2 year warranty and half my dash wasn't lighting up in the last 6-8 months, lol! Anyways, I also did some reflective tape, hoping to eliminate spotting, but it didn't do ****. Took me 2 hours, for nothing, lol!







I'm still planning on getting my cluster and AC controls done through LexTech when I have a different daily to drive...

Just a few until I receive all the parts and get them installed, I've been having problems with my brakes sticking lately so it's time to install them. And hopefully someone can help me out with my gated shifter conversion, I need the shifter linkage here; https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...r-linkage.html
I bought my gated shifter some time ago, and asked the seller if the linkage is included, he said yes, but it wasn't with it when I received the package, anyways, my SC is my daily, so there's no way I can get the existing linkage cut at the same time I do the conversion. Let me know guys, thanks!

raine

iTrader: (7)

Easy Off?

(10 char.)

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

What do you mean? I haven't drank my meds yet...

raine

iTrader: (7)

Were those lug nuts originally anodized or painted?