ISFPOWER's BUILD THREAD.. The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
12-28-12, 11:16 AM
#197
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
What knowledge do you expect to gain by a visual comparison?
I took a picture of the stock line yesterday to see the required stuff from DOT:
Our hoses are HL hoses, so they're low volumetric expansion as defined by the DOT spec linked above.
There is no dilemma over brake hoses. If you're putting Teflon lined stainless steel braided brake lines on a street car for anything other than bragging rights you're doing a lot of work for nothing, and some would argue you're increasing the opportunity for catastrophic failure for a number of reasons. There were huge arguments over these lines not long ago because they would not pass the "whip" test - the lines are flexed with 235 psi of pressure for 35 hours at 800 rpm in a test rig - because the wire braid failed at the joint between the fitting and the tubing. DOT was petitioned to allow the test to be run with a supplemental support so the wire braided lines would pass. These are the DOT approved lines you can buy today from Goodridge (and others), but they're still not as reliable as the OEM lines.
Other important concerns posted on Audiworld by Andrew Warren way back in 1999:
Again, I'm not saying don't do this. I'm saying it's a lot of work, there are no mechanical benefits to it, and installing the lines increases the opportunity for catastrophic failure unless you are very diligent in maintaining them. OEM rubber lines do not have these maintenance requirements - the only thing you need to do with OEM lines is replace them every 10 years.
Pick your poison.
I took a picture of the stock line yesterday to see the required stuff from DOT:
S5.2 Labeling.
S5.2.1 Each hydraulic brake hose, except hose sold as part of a motor vehicle, shall have at least two clearly identifiable stripes of at least one-sixteenth of an inch in width, placed on opposite sides of the brake hose parallel to its longitudinal axis. One stripe may be interrupted by the information required by S5.2.2, and the other stripe may be interrupted by additional information at the manufacturer's option. However, hydraulic brake hose manufactured for use only in an assembly whose end fittings prevent its installation in a twisted orientation in either side of the vehicle, need not meet the requirements of S5.2.1.
S5.2.2 Each hydraulic brake hose shall be labeled, or cut from bulk hose that is labeled, at intervals of not more than 6 inches, measured from the end of one legend to the beginning of the next, in block capital letters and numerals at least one-eighth of an inch high, with the information listed in paragraphs (a) through (e) of this section. The information need not be present on hose that is sold as part of a brake hose assembly or a motor vehicle.
(a) The symbol DOT, constituting a certification by the hose manufacturer that the hose conforms to all applicable motor vehicle safety standards.
(b) A designation that identifies the manufacturer of the hose, which shall be filed in writing with: Office of Vehicle Safety Compliance, Equipment Division NVS–222, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 400 Seventh St. SW., Washington, DC 20590. The marking may consist of a designation other than block capital letters required by S5.2.2.
(c) The month, day, and year, or the month and year, of manufacture, expressed in numerals. For example, 10/1/96 means October 1, 1996.
(d) The nominal inside diameter of the hose expressed in inches or fractions of inches, or in millimeters followed by the abbreviation “mm.”
(e) Either “HR” to indicate that the hose is regular expansion hydraulic hose or “HL” to indicate that the hose is low expansion hydraulic hose.
S5.2.1 Each hydraulic brake hose, except hose sold as part of a motor vehicle, shall have at least two clearly identifiable stripes of at least one-sixteenth of an inch in width, placed on opposite sides of the brake hose parallel to its longitudinal axis. One stripe may be interrupted by the information required by S5.2.2, and the other stripe may be interrupted by additional information at the manufacturer's option. However, hydraulic brake hose manufactured for use only in an assembly whose end fittings prevent its installation in a twisted orientation in either side of the vehicle, need not meet the requirements of S5.2.1.
S5.2.2 Each hydraulic brake hose shall be labeled, or cut from bulk hose that is labeled, at intervals of not more than 6 inches, measured from the end of one legend to the beginning of the next, in block capital letters and numerals at least one-eighth of an inch high, with the information listed in paragraphs (a) through (e) of this section. The information need not be present on hose that is sold as part of a brake hose assembly or a motor vehicle.
(a) The symbol DOT, constituting a certification by the hose manufacturer that the hose conforms to all applicable motor vehicle safety standards.
(b) A designation that identifies the manufacturer of the hose, which shall be filed in writing with: Office of Vehicle Safety Compliance, Equipment Division NVS–222, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 400 Seventh St. SW., Washington, DC 20590. The marking may consist of a designation other than block capital letters required by S5.2.2.
(c) The month, day, and year, or the month and year, of manufacture, expressed in numerals. For example, 10/1/96 means October 1, 1996.
(d) The nominal inside diameter of the hose expressed in inches or fractions of inches, or in millimeters followed by the abbreviation “mm.”
(e) Either “HR” to indicate that the hose is regular expansion hydraulic hose or “HL” to indicate that the hose is low expansion hydraulic hose.
There is no dilemma over brake hoses. If you're putting Teflon lined stainless steel braided brake lines on a street car for anything other than bragging rights you're doing a lot of work for nothing, and some would argue you're increasing the opportunity for catastrophic failure for a number of reasons. There were huge arguments over these lines not long ago because they would not pass the "whip" test - the lines are flexed with 235 psi of pressure for 35 hours at 800 rpm in a test rig - because the wire braid failed at the joint between the fitting and the tubing. DOT was petitioned to allow the test to be run with a supplemental support so the wire braided lines would pass. These are the DOT approved lines you can buy today from Goodridge (and others), but they're still not as reliable as the OEM lines.
Other important concerns posted on Audiworld by Andrew Warren way back in 1999:
Originally Posted by Audiworld tech article
If you do decide to put stainless-steel lines on your car, you need to be aware of a few things:
1. When you install them, you must make SURE that they can't kink, twist, or stretch under any combination of wheel droop, bump, or (for the front wheels) steer.
2. The stainless-steel outer braid will cut through anything against which it rubs, so you have to make sure that the lines don't rub back and forth over anything important.
3. Stainless steel lines have been known to fail when dirt gets between the outer braid and the Teflon lining... As the braid moves back and forth, the dirt abrades the Teflon and can make it rupture. If you look at stainless-steel lines on motorcycles, you'll see that many of them are encased in plastic tubing, apparently in an effort to eliminate this problem. The tubing also helps considerably with the abrasion issue mentioned above.
1. When you install them, you must make SURE that they can't kink, twist, or stretch under any combination of wheel droop, bump, or (for the front wheels) steer.
2. The stainless-steel outer braid will cut through anything against which it rubs, so you have to make sure that the lines don't rub back and forth over anything important.
3. Stainless steel lines have been known to fail when dirt gets between the outer braid and the Teflon lining... As the braid moves back and forth, the dirt abrades the Teflon and can make it rupture. If you look at stainless-steel lines on motorcycles, you'll see that many of them are encased in plastic tubing, apparently in an effort to eliminate this problem. The tubing also helps considerably with the abrasion issue mentioned above.
Pick your poison.
12-28-12, 12:12 PM
#198
Lobuxracer, thank you very much for your time. I really apritiate it.
The HL labeling is what I was looking for. Now, I am decided to keep my stock lines,
Thank you for that.
I just wanted a confirmation of some kind that our cars have these high
performance brake lines, not rubber. I searched a lot, the only info I got about Kevlar
Braided brake lines was on motorcycles. Nothing on cars, right out of factory.
I guess, I shoudl of figured out that Brembo would not put some crappy lines on their
brake system.
Thanks a lot. Stock it is.
The HL labeling is what I was looking for. Now, I am decided to keep my stock lines,
Thank you for that.
I just wanted a confirmation of some kind that our cars have these high
performance brake lines, not rubber. I searched a lot, the only info I got about Kevlar
Braided brake lines was on motorcycles. Nothing on cars, right out of factory.
I guess, I shoudl of figured out that Brembo would not put some crappy lines on their
brake system.
Thanks a lot. Stock it is.
12-28-12, 10:38 PM
#199
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
i dont get the same feeling with the ISF, but i doubt i will have problems. even if i do, i can always put the stock lines back on. i really just feel like completing my brake job with these lines.
12-29-12, 08:57 PM
#202
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
thank you, more pics are coming
can't mod it, it's a lease 
but yeah, quick, very quick. maybe i'm use to how slow the 330i and older 328 was. not bad for the lowest model 3 series.
but yeah, quick, very quick. maybe i'm use to how slow the 330i and older 328 was. not bad for the lowest model 3 series.
12-30-12, 12:55 PM
#205
Lexus Champion
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iTrader: (20)
here is a quick tease. ill try to get better pics up tonight.
01-01-13, 08:04 PM
#206
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
got my weather techs in yesterday. forgot i ordered these, they came perfect timing since the weather has been sh1tty as of late. i didn't like the look of the oem rubber mats , looked kinda cheap, no special "F" badge, its basically was for the isX50 which they just slapped in the newer ISFs, so i just wanted something that looked a little more custom fitting.
i'll have pics of the car as soon as there is a dry day here.
i'll have pics of the car as soon as there is a dry day here.
01-02-13, 04:58 AM
#208
Lexus Test Driver
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I have also been thinking about getting a set of these. MY OEM rubber mats are starting to look a little rough. Would like to hear your feedback on them.
got my weather techs in yesterday. forgot i ordered these, they came perfect timing since the weather has been sh1tty as of late. i didn't like the look of the oem rubber mats , looked kinda cheap, no special "F" badge, its basically was for the isX50 which they just slapped in the newer ISFs, so i just wanted something that looked a little more custom fitting.
i'll have pics of the car as soon as there is a dry day here.
i'll have pics of the car as soon as there is a dry day here.
01-02-13, 12:00 PM
#209
Lexus Champion
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iTrader: (20)
installed.
01-04-13, 03:38 PM
#210
Lexus Champion
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iTrader: (20)
took some pics after work today with the iphone. i beat the sun barely and got some sunset pics. this is with the 25mm spacers all around. looks really good in person. hope you guys like. im in love with the stock wheels and just trying to make best of it, i havent really seen a flush oem set up yet and im trying gto be the first.
