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^^ Haha! Well to be fair, once you supercharge that 1UZ (and adding an LSD to the package would really give you a traction advantage off the line!) I think it's more of a sleeper car that projects the image of "I'm grown up" but then blasts away like a bat out of hell with a cackle and a middle finger to growing up
There are few things like driving a powerful V8 car. I enjoyed that a lot in a vehicle I used to own. A Ford 302 with a Holley 650 four barrel carb and long tubes. It was a total dinosaur but it was loud and glorious.
That same V8 in the GS400 you want I've become very used to in a '99 LS400 (also VVT-i 290hp) with the same A650E 5-speed auto and 3.26:1 rear end. It's an amazing combination. I strongly prefer the 2JZGTE manual driveline personally but if you want the best durable heavyweight cruiser driveline Toyota has ever designed... it's any Toyota/Lexus 1UZ-FE VVT-i A650E 3.26 combo.
Though I'd have to sample a 2JZGTE sequential A340E automatic vehicle before I gave final judgement. I wonder if it would be close when comparing automatic to automatic.
The other day I had a sudden return of the dreaded IGF / CEL 14 / bad igniter issue.
It seemed to come out of nowhere and for no reason at all this time after all the changes to fix it months ago.
I popped in a spare new igniter and the SC had a hard/low start but it fired up, idled and drove well. It didn’t break down but a block from home so I’ve parked it since.
Got myself another new spare igniter on order and found another good 93-95 OBD1 6-speed ECU that is on the way. And I ordered 10x of each required specific low ESR capacitor that these ECUs require.
I’ll be sending out the current ECU to Tanin Auto for capacitor service (assuming they’ll work with a GTE ECU) and I’ll do the same for the incoming new spare ECU. After addressing those I’ll send out my first ECU which did get capacitor service via Driftmotion but which was affected by the overcharging alternator and burned igniters like crazy and see what they find.
Other than ECU capacitor issues I can’t think of anything that would have caused this other than perhaps the recent addition of the HKS turbo timer... so I have now disconnected that and put my ignition wire connectors back to stock.
Will see what happens with all of that but it was an unwelcome surprise the other day.
...
One good thing is that the rain finally let up enough to prep, paint and top coat my TT Auto Torsen LSD diff with POR-15 and let it set up. I think the result came out very well!
Before:
Metal prep stage (keeping this stuff sprayed on and wet top and bottom for 20 minutes before rinsing off with water and allowing to dry fully):
The final result after one solid coat of POR-15 all around, at least two hours of setting up for that and then the final “Chassis Black” top coat aerosol spray to lock it in from whatever UV breakdown the underside of a car may ever see:
Man that looks awesome. I am also interested in if Tanin does GTE ecu’s. Do share your experience. They did my GE of course but I faintly remember if they do GTE’s.
Man that looks awesome. I am also interested in if Tanin does GTE ecu’s. Do share your experience. They did my GE of course but I faintly remember if they do GTE’s.
Thanks! Hopefully that coating will protect the diff from the elements for years now.
I am going with Tanin right now because Aaron who runs Driftmotion and also does all their ECU repairs is taking a break from that work for the time being. Called them to confirm that today.
I then called up Tanin and explained that I was also a previous customer with several GE ECU repairs through them and asked if they would consider a special request to do capacitor work and logic board inspection/fixes on GTE ECUs. I was told by a rep over the phone that they probably would do it but that the price might not directly correlate to the SC300/400 ECU repair service. I said that was fine.
So I’ll send them to Tanin one at a time with the packs of specific low ESR capacitors (which I am sure they have already or can readily order anyway) and go from there.
They don’t offer a service for any 1JZ-GTE or 2JZ-GTE ECUs or any other Toyota ECUs with the same issue (maybe they do for ES300 and LS400 ECUs though?) but I’ll see how it goes with them and try to get in contact with their lead guy there again and see what they say.
At current time I only know of Driftmotion and Tanin Auto to be the two most trustworthy places that repair 80’s-90’s Toyota ECUs.
I’ve looked at the capacitor replacement process in detail and with my experience doing some light hobbyist computer circuit board assembly and soldering I considered if I’d do it myself after some practice on junk computer boards but since it’s so mission critical and since these ECUs aren’t in plentiful supply I’d rather send it in to the professionals.
On a side note I think I finally found someone who has experienced a similar igniter frying issue like mine. Unfortunately I can't see evidence from the relevant threads I found from him on the subject that he ever figured it out.
He's an SF member with the name The Pikey and his relevant posts are all the way back in 2003-2007. He supposedly had a handle at one time that said "Record # of blown igniters". He may not even be on Supraforums any longer from the look of it. But at the very least his igniter burning issues seem to mirror my own.
April 2021 Edit: In the end the solution to this issue was one or two things together. I had completely missed installing a rear cylinder head to chassis ground wire during the full assembly of the new engine.
This was addressed with 4GA copper strand boat wire custom made with ring terminals on each end to go from the middle of the cylinder head's intake side on a flat part of its surface that had a threaded area for a bolt (the factory ground point is on one of the rear cylinder head hook bolts but since those are hard to get to this other location was used until later) and that 4GA cable's other ring terminal end went to a specific open spot on a bracket that itself is bolted to the engine bay firewall.
Additionally an extra 4GA ground wire was added to the easy to spot rear intake manifold ground bolt and that wire was connected to a flat area of the engine bay's driver side chassis just beside the intake manifold.
The second thing that I did was to outright replace every one of the six TT ignition coils with new Denso packs. It may have been overkill but I was told by another member that the fellow in that SF thread finally did solve his igniter burn issue by replacing a bad TT coil pack that had a shorted secondary winding. A very rare issue but apparently that can cause this condition.
After both changes I had no more igniter burn issue however I now always keep a spare new one in the trunk just in case.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 04-23-21 at 07:40 PM.
Reason: Added info for the eventual solution to this problem
Well I believe it’s in good hands with Tanin. I have done light hobbyists work myself as well. I had to de-soldier my old capacitors from the motherboard of my TV and soldier in the newer/larger ones I bought, so my tv could work again.
Is there any chance its getting too hot, I know those things get too hot to touch normally. Ecu still seems like a likely suspect though.
I would also check the noise filter, the 2 pin plugged in white connector mounted to the left of it... make sure that is getting the right power and ground too or it isn't doing anything.
Is there any chance its getting too hot, I know those things get too hot to touch normally. Ecu still seems like a likely suspect though.
I would also check the noise filter, the 2 pin plugged in white connector mounted to the left of it... make sure that is getting the right power and ground too or it isn't doing anything.
It's possible that it's getting too hot, Ali but I don't know. My understanding is that heat cycling over time is probably what eventually wears out igniters anyway. Combine that with an electrical imbalance of some kind and surely that is what will cause it to fail prematurely. Or... if a faulty ECU does something to it causing a failure of the little logic circuit inside it that governs the IGF signal.
My noise filter on the side of the igniter bracket is a new part. And I checked those connections for good wire continuity a while back when I went though my whole ignition system. They checked out OK.
The last time this was a frequent thing it took replacing the alternator, ECU and igniter to cure the issue. Now I did go from a capacitor serviced ECU that nonetheless seemed to burn igniters to another good ECU with no capacitor servicing.
The only hypotheses I have at the moment are:
A) My 2nd ECU may need capacitors replaced since it's likely on the original ones. It does sometimes start a little weakly while other times starts up fine. Good battery in the car and the starter is as new as the engine so it's neither of those. Since I am running a Supra TT Fuel ECU with the dual 9V/12V modes I suppose that could be a factor but I've had no weird issues with fueling so I very much doubt that.
B) My HKS turbo timer's function in timer mode may do *something*(?) to affect the way the ignition circuit works that may not be allowing the engine ECU, igniter and the rest of the ignition system. Although since installing it with my self-made plug-and-play harness it's seemed to work perfectly fine. For now I have disconnected it and put the ignition plugs under the dash back to stock.
C) Maybe, like my inexplicable original injector connector #5 having this weird conductivity through plastic to the ground pin, maybe I have a similar issue going on with the old original igniter connectors. Perhaps replacing those with new ones will solve this strangeness.
D) I have always read that the 2JZ-GTE engines have two intake manifold ground connections. However I have only ever been able to find the rear such connection on mine. I have assumed these are not the same as the engine block thick cable ground (mine is still the 25+ year old original FYI) or the ground connection next to the fuse box towards the fender of the SC.
I went through the harness connections onto the engine thoroughly so I would not think I missed anything as critical as that but wherever the front manifold ground connection is I cannot find it unless it is buried under the manifold itself. There are no high resolution specific pictures of the 2JZGTE front intake manifold ground connection that I've been able to find, other than this diagram from the Supra electrical TSRM:
That is connection "EC" which does ground the igniter on the 2JZGTE among other things. Visually though I just cannot find where this connection is on my engine.
This is an older picture from 2018 of my GTE engine still on the stand while I was finishing up adding some extra wires for the factory SC alarm horn and a wire for the A/C outside ambient temp sensor thermistor. You'll note that not everything is hooked up yet in this picture. It's not a close shot but even from this distance it's a nice, clear angle of the side of the intake manifold where supposedly not one but two ground connections are supposed to go. The rear one is easy to see how to get to. The "front" intake manifold ground connection, however...?
Now that DOES look like another ground connection. I'd love to find a real picture of another 2JZ-GTE engine that shows this very spot to get a better real world look at exactly where this is outside of a diagram.
E) Since SC's don't come with an EFI2 circuit I ran myself an 8GA power wire directly from the battery positive all the way to the Fuel ECU area next to the driver's side back seat behind the panel. There I have my 30A/40A relay, TT Fuel ECU and other associated wiring.
But I have for the longest time allowed that 8GA power wire, covered in small conduit and wrapped in electrical tape, to run RIGHT alongside my igniter. But once I solved this issue a while back that never seemed to make any difference as I haven't had a fried igniter issue for months until now.
I've now moved that fuel pump power wire over next to the injector resistor pack. I doubt that would make any difference but it's peace of mind.
In the pictures below I'm pointing right next to the igniter where the 8GA TT fuel pump power wire *used* to be...
...And now where the 8GA TT fuel pump power wire is now located right next to the injector resistor pack.
My bet is on the ECU capacitors needing service, but we’ll see. I haven’t been driving or running the SC since this happened so as to preserve the current brand new igniter that was installed just to get it home.
Originally Posted by Maximo018
Well I believe it’s in good hands with Tanin. I have done light hobbyists work myself as well. I had to de-soldier my old capacitors from the motherboard of my TV and soldier in the newer/larger ones I bought, so my tv could work again.
Chris, I think so too. I've been very happy with their service to my 2JZ-GE ECUs in the past. Even though it's a special request and they will not be able to test a 2JZGTE ECU in one of their on site shop cars I know they will take care of me. I too will work on small electronics boards and computer hardware with a soldering iron but for this I'd rather it be professionally handled.
I will have a new-to-me spare good working 2JZ-GTE ECU in the mail on Thursday. That will now mean I have two ECUs that should have their capacitors replaced anyway and a third one (the ECU I first used that seemed to burn igniters frequently after very possibly being affected by an overcharging alternator) to have inspected since it already had its capacitors replaced.
I was going to mention it last night about the 2 EFI circuits on the GTE vs the 1 on the GE, but I figured you had that part wired up right since you spent a good amount of time on it.
I would think its fair to say that is likely your issue, if that wire point is not grounded right then that could cause those issues since we don't know where its grounding through currently.
We do know its getting some ground or the igniter wouldn't work at all then, but it might not be a good enough grounding to support the 6 channel igniter at higher rpm's.
My guess would be, if that ground is not connected to ground, then that whole circuit would ground through the sensors connected/threaded into the engine (which is grounded) via their ground wires on that ignitor circuit, like the oil level sensor, of if the gte ignitor case is connected to its ground internally it could be grounding through the bracket, although on a gte they have a ground wire to not need to do that (like the 7m).
So if it is a gte harness we are talking about and the ground is not connected through anything I would think that is a real possibility.
I just dealt with something similar on the vette, put on a chrome alternator and bracket only to learn that the engine ground goes through that chrome bracket, and when I connected my electric fan ground in that area, every time they kicked on it would mess with the distributor signal so bad the engine would just abruptly cut off, got stuck on the highway even.. lots of fun lol.. until I disconnected the fan and rewired the ground.
Basically, the ground was just barely good enough for the engine, but not enough to handle the kicking on of the electric fans. So while it may seem like its grounded and good at first, sometimes its not grounded enough when pushing all the systems together. Funny thing is it worked fine with the old bracket and alternator.. not sure if its the chrome or the bolts or what really but it is a terrible design.
I would try and track down that front ground, do you see where it is coming out of the harness?
If you can find it there is that bolt hole toward the front that looks like it would work, pretty much the same one in the diagram you posted at the end.
I bet Gerrb would know exactly where all the grounds go since he has taken so many apart, I'd probably wait for him to chime in on where it is as I am just guessing.
But if you can find where it is hanging off the harness, then I would put it to any bolt hole on the intake manifold for the time being.
Heck, once you find that you can run an extra ground from the chassis by the fusebox to the intake manifold just to be sure.
the power wire running next to it is probably not a huge deal, but not a bad idea to have the large gauge power wire further from it.
I don't think it would do much, but if it did it would probably result in misfires and random ignition though, which isn't what is happening but good to eliminate things.
Ali, based on the hunch about the front intake manifold ground wire I picked up a boroscope and hunted around under the intake manifold to locate it.
And... there it was. Very hard to see from above but I had installed it in what looks to be the correct location.
So I think there has not been a grounding issue on that circuit. I turned the ignition to ON, took out my multimeter and tested that ground point to battery negative. I read -0.05V. So not perfect but it is not getting wild power readings that would suggest a big issue.
It probably needs to be tested with the car running as well.
However... when I tried to start the car it only cranked. No start.
The igniter installed is brand new and was only run for a few minutes at idle and then driven on at residential speeds for less than three blocks before the SC was parked, turned off and not driven for about a week now.
With the previous hard starting this now leads me to consider that the 2nd ECU in the car simply has a capacitor failure issue. There is no way a brand new igniter could be burned out THAT quickly.
Incidentally my 3rd 2JZGTE ECU also showed up today in the mail. However just as with the ECU currently in the car it also has never had capacitor service performed.
So I think I need to get both of these ECUs sent out for capacitor service one by one since it’s never an “if” but “when” thing to fail. Then I can see if that’s all it takes to start the vehicle with both this new igniter AND the one that seemingly died a week ago (if it really did).
Though for sure I will be sending out the ECU that is currently installed first since it’s pretty obvious that one needs to be looked at pronto.
It will be a few more days before Digi-Key mails out the low ESR capacitors. The full turnaround may take a bit.
Looks like you did get it after all, as long as you didn't paint the intake manifold there it should be grounding well enough.
Guess these ecu's are getting older now, but that's some pretty bad luck hope you get it sorted out.
Looks like you did get it after all, as long as you didn't paint the intake manifold there it should be grounding well enough.
Guess these ecu's are getting older now, but that's some pretty bad luck hope you get it sorted out.
Err... I did have all the aluminum parts of the engine sonic bath cleaned and then I did paint them in a simple VHT Clear to re-seal the metal pores all before I began assembly.
Could that have created an issue? I did mask off most all the mounting areas of all those parts before giving them the clear coat. I’m pretty sure that included the ground cable mounting points but it has been a while.
Yeah, with my ECU woes it is weird bad luck. I don’t think I’ve read of anyone else going to this much trouble to get a reliable engine computer.
The current ECU is out of the car and getting boxed up. I’m sending it out tomorrow. My hope is that there won’t be any electrolytic fluid on the logic boards. The ECU did run fine for months until now.
You mentioned your Stingray earlier. How is it doing now? And your Audi?
If that flat rounded surface was hit with the clear then you wouldn't be getting a good ground, probably be intermittent but if you masked stuff off you would have likely done that one.
The bolt will do some of the grounding, but not necessarily for higher currents like I discovered. you could tap into the ignitor ground wire and run it to another solid ground as a test maybe is all I can think of.
Still I think one of your ecu's would have worked well enough even if it as bad. I thought the capacitor usually resulted in overfueling, did you notice richer than usual afr's before it cut out?
I finally got the audi finished up with the whole abs downgrade and been enjoying it quite alot, no more lights on the dash, abs works, trac works, boosts great, a/c works, got the v8 s4 lowering springs in so I don't crack another lower oil pan (oh and a new oil pan lol).
The corvette is good, just need to make sure the fan ground is sorted, but otherwise it's been performing great with the T56 and actually stops amazing now since I put the wilwood calipers on the front and overhauled the whole brake system.
Next plan is A/C and I have new upper control arms and a bunch of suspension/steering refresh components, its got a little wander to it at higher speeds and all the bushings in the front look old, so maybe winter I will try and do that.. and some new wheels/tires.
I have been going back and forth with 2jz swapping the tacoma, I saw that people are turboing the 3.4l motor in there with pretty good success. maybe not as much HP but alot more torque.
I think I will think about it some more and see, I thought about scrapping the project and picking up a 97+SC3, but haven't seen a clean one that I liked yet.
If that flat rounded surface was hit with the clear then you wouldn't be getting a good ground, probably be intermittent but if you masked stuff off you would have likely done that one.
The bolt will do some of the grounding, but not necessarily for higher currents like I discovered. you could tap into the ignitor ground wire and run it to another solid ground as a test maybe is all I can think of.
Still I think one of your ecu's would have worked well enough even if it as bad. I thought the capacitor usually resulted in overfueling, did you notice richer than usual afr's before it cut out?
I am pretty sure I masked those two areas before hitting the freshly cleaned intake with VHT clear but just in case I got under the hood this afternoon, disconnected both grounds and ran some 400 grit and then 2000 grit sandpaper on those contact points on the manifold. It did not feel as if I were rubbing anything off as I did this so I think this hasn't been the issue with past igniter woes. It didn't hurt to do it though.
I have no extra gauges hooked up on this SC other than the oil pressure sender from the "union" bolt and the voltmeter. What I did notice prior to the failure to start last week was occasional low/hard startup (ie: the engine would crank but initial turnover would be slow/low/weak before getting normal cold startup rpms). Also perhaps the exhaust smelled a tiny tad rich... but that's also what I've come to expect from 2JZGTE ECUs anyway (rich running) so I have only this car as a frame of reference to how a 100% good condition "stock" 2JZGTE exhaust should smell right at startup.
Always once my car has been warmed up and after it's been driven there has been nothing to note about its exhaust. All stock tune and two OEM TT cats mask pretty much everything.
However tonight I did try my 3rd 2JZGTE ECU that I just bought (an early revision 89661-14520. My 2nd 2JZGTE ECU that I just removed and suspect as having cap issues is an 89661-14521).
I am leaning towards the issue right now being capacitors in the 2nd 2JZGTE ECU:
-- Last week car stalls out with a CEL 14 "bad IGF signal" and won't start.
--Would start with a brand new 2JZGTE igniter but the starting was "low"/weak at first. Have experienced that issue before.
--Parked car. Didin't drive it for a few days.
--After a few days I go to start the car. Will not start now. Just cranks. Still with ECU #2 and a brand new igniter used for 1/3 miles and perhaps 5-8 minutes.
--Leave car again for a few days.
--I buy another known good 2JZGTE ECU (#3).
--Install ECU #3 tonight. Car starts right up. Idles fine. Drives fine.
I need to test the other igniter I had previously removed. I'll do that tomorrow.
But as it stands right now I feel the issue has been that my ECU #2 probably needed its capacitors replaced and now some issues are showing up.
Or... somehow... perhaps my HKS turbo timer affected things? I can't imagine how given how it works and after checking all my wiring but that was disconnected and the ignition plugs put back to stock (plug and play setup) before trying to start up again on ECU #2 the other day.
So I still need to get the capacitors changed out in ECU #2 and once I have that one back, the ECU #3 that is currently in the car.
ECU #1... the one very likely affected by old alternator over-voltage that was burning through igniters one after another I'd like to get looked at but it had its capacitors replaced back in 2013 by Driftmotion long before it was used so I don't know what else could be looked at and remedied on that one.
Originally Posted by Ali SC3
I finally got the audi finished up with the whole abs downgrade and been enjoying it quite alot, no more lights on the dash, abs works, trac works, boosts great, a/c works, got the v8 s4 lowering springs in so I don't crack another lower oil pan (oh and a new oil pan lol).
The corvette is good, just need to make sure the fan ground is sorted, but otherwise it's been performing great with the T56 and actually stops amazing now since I put the wilwood calipers on the front and overhauled the whole brake system.
Next plan is A/C and I have new upper control arms and a bunch of suspension/steering refresh components, its got a little wander to it at higher speeds and all the bushings in the front look old, so maybe winter I will try and do that.. and some new wheels/tires.
I have been going back and forth with 2jz swapping the tacoma, I saw that people are turboing the 3.4l motor in there with pretty good success. maybe not as much HP but alot more torque.
I think I will think about it some more and see, I thought about scrapping the project and picking up a 97+SC3, but haven't seen a clean one that I liked yet.
ABS downgrade for the Audi? Was that an ABS spec that your V6TT engine was designed for that your wagon chassis didn't come with originally?
Cracking oil pans with the wrong springs? Yikes! I'm glad you got that sorted out! The S4 spec suspension has to feel great to drive on now.
Having owned a car of similar vintage to your Stingray long ago Im happy to hear you went with the Wilwood braking system upgrade! Performance cars of that era rarely had adequate stopping capabilities from the factory. I don't even think we're spoiled now. Things just got a LOT better
A/C working in that thing will make you want to take it out even more! That and your suspension upgrade and the T56 swap feels great I assume, having sampled a couple of GMs with it. That was an automatic Corvette originally, wasn't it?
I really liked the Tacoma full time 4WD setup you had put together for the 2JZ. You went to so much trouble to get the right transfer case, input and output splines and manual 2WD/4WD selector all working correctly. You'd have to build the 3.4L V6 from the ground up for boost, I'd think. Aren't those better with superchargers?
It really comes down to how you want to use that Tacoma once you have it built. It's a killer project and a very creative challenge that I have not seen many attempt in the way you have. But would it be more of an on-road high performance truck or an off-road high performance truck?
I say find yourself that good condition 97-00 SC if you're missing them. That 2JZ is going into something I'm sure. Somehow the Tacoma will show you which direction it wants to go in... either 2JZ 4WD or boosted 3.4L 4WD. I'm just here excited to see how it evolves
Sounds like it is probably an ecu issue then, if you run into any more issues will try and help out. somehow I don't like rebuilt ones but the old ones are getting pretty old these days too making it riskier.
Lol, don't want to add so much to your thread but you asked about the cars and that's a long question to answer for me, even trying to be concise.. lol.
Yeah the b7 a4 chassis was the start of the newer bosch 8.0 abs module which communicates over can bus, and the older cars like the 2.7t cars used the bosch 5.7 abs module which talks via k-line.
Since I had to keep the 2.7t ecu, that means "downgrading" the chassis to the bosch 5.7 abs module, so the ecu and abs can talk via k-line and now they are happy, and that makes the traction control happy also which won't activate with abs faults.
Yeah I totally cracked just the lower oil pan, the 4 cylinder lowering springs couldn't take the extra weight of the 2.7tt and its so low it would just nosedive and one time it was bad enough to crack it. V8 springs totally did the trick though, and a new oil pan.
The vette was originally a 350/th400 car. I hated how it drove with the automatic, to get it to idle right in drive with my carb, the nuetral idle would be quite high, and putting it into gear would slam so hard with the shift kit I though I was going to break all the mounts.
Now as a t56 car, it idles right were I set it around 800, it is smooth as butter from a take off, and when you want to slam the gears it does that well also. The lower gears made the car noticeably quicker, and the overdrive is really so good I am not sure how these car's didn't have one.
the 3.4l v6 in the taco is usually supercharged, but they respond well to turbos just people don't know how to do it as well in that crowd.
They have an iron block and pretty stout bottom end parts, would hold 500 I guesstimate but the thing with those is headgasket usually due to the stock exhaust, but I don't know if the turbo exhaust pre turbo will make less heat there or more heat.
I think I get the 2jz finished and go from there. I do want to put that awd transfer case behind something, and I can actually put it behind the 3.4l also I just need the older bellhousing (3vz r150f bell and throwout bering) and an 05+ tacoma 4 cyl transmission (R155f).
Or I can put the 05+ tacoma 4 cyl transmission (R155f) to the 2jz with an aftermarket r150f short input version bellhousing, and I assume since that setup is a push setup the w58 clutch and PP setup works with that, although it is completely untested and just in my head at this point.
If I find the right 98+ SC300, I will probably scoop it up and flip one of the cars, but it has to be a really nice one. Really I want one of the last years like a 99 or 2000