Building an IS350 6MT
#272
Wow. Bravo. I had no idea this was going on right down the street in Calgary. I just bought my 2006 IS350 in Calgary last week, all of it's service done at Country Hills Toyota. Doesn't happen to be your work place does it? I'm heading down to pick up a bumper there soon, I could swing in with a Tims for you and see about getting my service history. lol.
So I'm guessing this was all done before tuning was available? Now that you can tune the ECU, I would think this swap would be a lot easier for someone else. Just use the 250 ECU and have it tuned with the fuel trims of the tune that's out for the IS350. Then all your driveline electronics can function without issue. Any reason this couldn't be done?
My point is, I considered at least 4 potential solutions to the problem and went with the one that seemed most likely to succeed. It did end up having some challenges as well, but it was what I thought had the best chance of working as intended.
Also, any reason you kept the stock IS250 transmission? Based on the way you did the swap, I'm guessing cost wasn't a big factor. From a cost perspective it would make more sense to swap a transmission into a 350, then a 350 engine into a 250. Unless a guy could get a smoking deal on a 350 engine, they are not cheap from what I have found. Anywho, if the big worry about the 250 trans is that it can't handle the torque of the 350, it would be cool to see someone swap in a V160 or something. But I suppose it really boils down to the owners skills. I'd be comfortable just fabbing the required mounting for a different transmission. But if someone is just paying shop labour to swap parts, then it makes more sense to stick with stock stuff to keep labour costs down.
Doing the swap on my car was a lot of buying this and assembling that, the only real modifications came with regards to electronics. A V160 swap would require a custom bellhousing or adapter, custom flywheel/clutch setup, a custom drive shaft, custom mounting, some shifter modifications, possibly transmission tunnel modifications, at the least. I actually have a Jack's Transmission Stage 3 V160 sitting in my buddy's basement, but it was never even considered for this project. There's no need. In fact, that transmission is destined for a JZA70 Twin Turbo R, which will actually require many of the same modifications, but in that case it is worth doing.
Currently my only project with the car is looking into potential clutch upgrades. I am working on a custom flywheel setup that will allow the use of a larger sprung disc and a different type of pressure plate. I am considering a few options to get rid of the dual-mass flywheel, but am not interested in the aluminum flywheels made by Fidanza or SPEC.
Jeff
#273
So I've driven the car about 20,000 km over the last year and in that time I have decided that while the clutch setup isn't terrible, it could use improving. The throttle response from the 2GR-FSE is better than the 4GR was and as such having the dual mass flywheel with the dampened clutch disc, while smooth, can actually be a bit annoying in certain situations.
After spending some time thinking about options and designing a new flywheel, I found what I've put together what I was looking for. My new flywheel is chromoly steel and weighs about 2/3 of what the factory dual-mass flywheel weighs. While it is lighter, it still has some weight to it.
I am using an Aisin NVR 250mm clutch disc with a larger inner and outer diameter and a much larger sprung hub. I've used the NVR clutch discs in a few of my other cars and always been very happy with the way they drive. I will be keeping my existing pressure plate for now, but with the larger clutch disc, it should hold about 20-25 ft-lbs more torque while maintaining the same pedal effort.
I hope to get it installed shortly, depending on how the weather looks. I've still got the Potenza RE-71R's on the car and they don't care much for the snow, haha.
Jeff
After spending some time thinking about options and designing a new flywheel, I found what I've put together what I was looking for. My new flywheel is chromoly steel and weighs about 2/3 of what the factory dual-mass flywheel weighs. While it is lighter, it still has some weight to it.
I am using an Aisin NVR 250mm clutch disc with a larger inner and outer diameter and a much larger sprung hub. I've used the NVR clutch discs in a few of my other cars and always been very happy with the way they drive. I will be keeping my existing pressure plate for now, but with the larger clutch disc, it should hold about 20-25 ft-lbs more torque while maintaining the same pedal effort.
I hope to get it installed shortly, depending on how the weather looks. I've still got the Potenza RE-71R's on the car and they don't care much for the snow, haha.
Jeff
Last edited by Jeff Lange; 02-15-17 at 10:02 AM.
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Goopi (08-16-23)
#274
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Been following this thread for a bit now, and I'm super excited to see all that's been done!
That being said, I have a quick couple of questions for you, Jeff:
Is your new flywheel an off the shelf one, or a custom design of your own?
Also, to whom did you send the IS350 ECU, in order to delete the ATM? Were there any other options to trick the ECU into thinking the ATM isn't there?
That being said, I have a quick couple of questions for you, Jeff:
Is your new flywheel an off the shelf one, or a custom design of your own?
Also, to whom did you send the IS350 ECU, in order to delete the ATM? Were there any other options to trick the ECU into thinking the ATM isn't there?
#275
Jeff
#276
2IS/2RX/4RX
iTrader: (1)
I am using an Aisin NVR 250mm clutch disc with a larger inner and outer diameter and a much larger sprung hub. I've used the NVR clutch discs in a few of my other cars and always been very happy with the way they drive. I will be keeping my existing pressure plate for now, but with the larger clutch disc, it should hold about 20-25 ft-lbs more torque while maintaining the same pedal effort.
#277
The F-Sport has approximately 15% more clamping load than stock, which increases torque capacity to approximately 290 ft-lb. The pressure plate I am using is just a tad stronger than that, at approximately 17% more clamping load than stock, good for approximately 300 ft-lb. With the new clutch disc, I will have approximately 25% higher torque capacity from stock.
Stock pressure plate has a 6860N clamping force with a 236mm clutch disc.
Jeff
Stock pressure plate has a 6860N clamping force with a 236mm clutch disc.
Jeff
#278
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im still interested in trying this now more than before since tuning the is350 ecu is readily available. Has anyone tried the pre 2008 gs350 engine in a pre 2008 is250 m/t (non vdim with non vdim)???? Can the errors be fixed with this stock ecu reflash tunes they offer at local dynos? I would really like to try the non vdim swap i can live without abs/tcs/vsc/cel as long as it runs like a is350 with a manual trans electrical tape solves the lights lol
#280
It's been a bit of a crazy year, meant to post some updates earlier, but didn't get a chance to.
I did get the flywheel installed along with the new clutch disc. It feels fantastic, though I may still adjust it a bit, not sure yet. Much lighter makes for a more rev-happy experience, but it's not crazy light and so does still drive very smooth, as a Lexus should. Additionally I did replace the 3.91:1 Torsen T2 differential setup with a low mileage 4.10:1 T2 to give me a bit more gearing advantage and did a few other items here and there as well.
Original Dual-Mass Flywheel (120,000 km, 20k of which was with the 2GR-FSE), still in spec, but heavy:
New Aisin NVR clutch disc beside previous TSB-updated clutch disc. More torque capacity:
GRMN clutch line/hose setup with no accumulator to replace my previous pieced-together setup:
4.10:1 Torsen T2 Limited Slip Differential:
In an effort to freshen-up but also increase a bit of the tight feeling of the car, I went ahead and replaced a few of the bushings/mounts on the car. I carefully considered which engine mounts to go with and almost went with the Megan ones, but I just couldn't get enough confirmation about their characteristics to make the leap.
2GR/6MT engine mounts / GRMN transmission mount (stiffer than 4GR):
Replacement shifter bushings:
TRD differential mounts/stoppers (front upper/lower and rear solid rubber instead of liquid-filled):
IS-F rear subframe mounts (stiffer than ISx50 stuff):
Overall, the car feels fantastic at this point, I am still considering other ways to improve its performance, however now that I am back in school things will likely progress a bit slower.
Jeff
I did get the flywheel installed along with the new clutch disc. It feels fantastic, though I may still adjust it a bit, not sure yet. Much lighter makes for a more rev-happy experience, but it's not crazy light and so does still drive very smooth, as a Lexus should. Additionally I did replace the 3.91:1 Torsen T2 differential setup with a low mileage 4.10:1 T2 to give me a bit more gearing advantage and did a few other items here and there as well.
Original Dual-Mass Flywheel (120,000 km, 20k of which was with the 2GR-FSE), still in spec, but heavy:
New Aisin NVR clutch disc beside previous TSB-updated clutch disc. More torque capacity:
GRMN clutch line/hose setup with no accumulator to replace my previous pieced-together setup:
4.10:1 Torsen T2 Limited Slip Differential:
In an effort to freshen-up but also increase a bit of the tight feeling of the car, I went ahead and replaced a few of the bushings/mounts on the car. I carefully considered which engine mounts to go with and almost went with the Megan ones, but I just couldn't get enough confirmation about their characteristics to make the leap.
2GR/6MT engine mounts / GRMN transmission mount (stiffer than 4GR):
Replacement shifter bushings:
TRD differential mounts/stoppers (front upper/lower and rear solid rubber instead of liquid-filled):
IS-F rear subframe mounts (stiffer than ISx50 stuff):
Overall, the car feels fantastic at this point, I am still considering other ways to improve its performance, however now that I am back in school things will likely progress a bit slower.
Jeff
#284
Working on it. I wouldn't mind it if winter could be over though. That would be nice.
Jeff
#285
Driver School Candidate
engine mounts
Jeff
Great to see the 6MT beast is continually getting upgraded
I think you asked previously on a separate thread whether anyone had experience of the Megan mounts and I mentioned I had purchased some but not had the chance to install yet... Months later, they are still in the box waiting to be installed!
How difficult is the engine mount install procedure? Did you go about it by raising the engine up with a hoist? (i am too afraid to lift the engine upwards by jacking on the oil pan)
Or did you lower the subframe? I'm trying to work out what is the best approach.
My local Lexus d(st)ealership tried to make out it was a very time consuming job and quoted 4 hours labour - but most of the DIYs i have seen for other cars make it look like more of a 1hr job.
Were there any complications in replacing the engine mounts that made it a longer job?
Thanks!
In an effort to freshen-up but also increase a bit of the tight feeling of the car, I went ahead and replaced a few of the bushings/mounts on the car. I carefully considered which engine mounts to go with and almost went with the Megan ones, but I just couldn't get enough confirmation about their characteristics to make the leap.
2GR/6MT engine mounts / GRMN transmission mount (stiffer than 4GR):
Jeff
Great to see the 6MT beast is continually getting upgraded
I think you asked previously on a separate thread whether anyone had experience of the Megan mounts and I mentioned I had purchased some but not had the chance to install yet... Months later, they are still in the box waiting to be installed!
How difficult is the engine mount install procedure? Did you go about it by raising the engine up with a hoist? (i am too afraid to lift the engine upwards by jacking on the oil pan)
Or did you lower the subframe? I'm trying to work out what is the best approach.
My local Lexus d(st)ealership tried to make out it was a very time consuming job and quoted 4 hours labour - but most of the DIYs i have seen for other cars make it look like more of a 1hr job.
Were there any complications in replacing the engine mounts that made it a longer job?
Thanks!
In an effort to freshen-up but also increase a bit of the tight feeling of the car, I went ahead and replaced a few of the bushings/mounts on the car. I carefully considered which engine mounts to go with and almost went with the Megan ones, but I just couldn't get enough confirmation about their characteristics to make the leap.
2GR/6MT engine mounts / GRMN transmission mount (stiffer than 4GR):
Jeff