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Took Friday off at the shop and went cruising with the guys up to Estes Park. The SC performed flawlessy and held it's own against dual K04 2.7T's, V8 R8's, etc! The car just pulls so hard, runs so smooth, and sounds so damn good...
BUUUUUUTTTTT..... I did manage to go through emissions with my new GESI EPA rated cat... Take a look at these CO levels... HOLY ****! What do you guys think of that? I do have an 02 sensor installed that I never truly believed was the correct one... Do you guys think that could be an issue? The JDM ECU does spit out some error codes, but I've never gotten it to say anything except for a speed sensor error since I'm currently on an auto ECU.
Any input would be greatly appreciated! And any input on a locally/online available 02 that they know works well with a JDM VVTI ecu would also be greatly appreciated.
Hope you all are well!
Im happy for you! When the car was tested, was it warmed up? or was it tested from a cold start?
It was pretty damn warm - I drove it across town and tried to beat it up pretty good on the way.... The cat is brand new - like maybe has a couple hundred miles new - think that has anything to do with it?
How far back from the exhaust manifold is the cat? They tend to work better the hotter they are, or so I hear. I think I mentioned this in another thread too but I used a high-flow cat on my SC and my guy had to revv the engine for a couple of minutes to get the numbers out of red.
Rudy, I'm not sure if the O2 sensors are different on the JDM 2JZGTE VVT-i versus the non-vvt-i and USDM/Export non-vvt-i's. I'd have to check parts diagrams to see.
However regarding the cat placement did you mount your high flow in pretty much the same location as your stock NA factory 2nd cat? I'm not sure if the JDM models even have a front cat but since all U.S. NA SC300's and MKIV NA's and TT's have two cats it might be needed to have more than one to get really acceptable numbers. I'm not sure if the automatic ECU makes any difference but being a VVT-i engine there should technically be some function that takes the place of the old EGR system in non-vvt-i GE and GTE engines. That should have helped a bit with emissions on the stock ECU.
But I'm thinking if the O2 sensor isn't a contributing issue (I'd use whatever Denso OEM-fit sensor is supposed to go with that engine) then it may have to do with there only being one cat and also it could have to do with the amount of Platinum, Rhodium and Palladium inside that GESI catalytic convertor. Since it's brand new and since you have reported no issues of running rich all the time I think it's safe to assume that it hasn't been fouled in any way.
Is there an info sheet available on the GESI cat model you used?
Just in case this becomes an issue where you might have to install another cat upstream from the first one I believe Driftmotion sells bare output flanges that fit the JDM twin turbo stock EGCV housing. They offer this to create downpipes but you can just as easily use one of these flanges to have an exhaust shop fit a cat onto it. Just make sure they test whether or not whatever canister style cat would be used can be shoved in and out of the undercarriage with ease BEFORE they fabricate up any piping to it. I can tell you that with my style GTE swap the Toyota engineers leave you with just enough space to be able to get the factory front TT cat in and out with decent serviceability but it's still kind of tight.
Hopefully you won't need to go to that trouble but just in case you do it is an option.
Also, just FYI even on the USDM TT stock engine setup the front cat has no extra O2 sensor bung or flange on it. It's just a canister cat of a certain diameter with specific pipe shapes and flange orientation to bolt up to the EGCV housing and to the stock exhaust pipe on the other end.
The front O2 sensor mounts into the twin turbo EGCV housing just the same as on your car's JDM engine. I do have a 2nd O2 sensor on my 2nd cat under the car but I'm going to guess that your JDM setup doesn't have that second O2 sensor wiring.
Thanks for the reply you guys! I can pull up a link for that GESI - it's EPA rated and I paid a pretty penny for it so I was hoping it was going to be sufficient. I'll have to do some tinkering and see what I think I'll have to do... A local guy may have an extra stock exhaust with a second cat in the midpipe that I could try as well. I'm honestly a little floored by the numbers and am not totally sure how to proceed. ha! Keep some fingers crossed for me boys!
Couldn't agree more with you Bill. Firstly, Craig is the man. Secondly, you are correct. Projects like these are a constant learning process and in some cases it takes a lot of patience and persistence to keep them reliable and legal (the later being the tougher for most of us lol).
On that note - anybody have a stock GTE downpipe with a cat that they'd be willing to sell me, or perhaps even rent to me if you need it back? ha!
Your nox numbers are so low that it is possible it is running very rich most of the time. That will also raise the hc/co which look like they are spiking when letting off the gas.
I'd look into why its running so rich and the other thing is how close is the cat to the turbo's, if it is too far back on the midpipe it might not be getting hot enough to burn off properly. either one or both could be happening.
do you have an afr gauge in the car? that would let you know if you are running rich or if something is up with your o2s. grabbing a stock cat on the downpipe would also drop your numbers but if you have another issue might sort that first cause you can burn through cats eventually with a rich mixture.
You are right on the older universal magnaflows not being enough as they usually wont lower nox enough. I have had good results with their obd2 line of cats though which you can get in 3" (had 1 of those on the 2.7t audi), but over the years have noticed you can't put them too far back in the piping or they just don't cut the numbers down enough. Might be why the factory likes to stick them on the downpipe super close to the turbos.
I appreciate the input Ali! I agree that something isn't right and the car does seem to run far too rich when off throttle. I'll do some more digging into which 02 sensor to use (or verify that what I have is correct and that the new connector is wired properly as I'm not exactly sure what aftermarket harness is in my car as it came with my swap). The cat is currently welded in as close to the midpipe/downpipe flange as possible in the midpipe. I've run cats further back on other cars and had better luck which makes me think you're right about whatever is causing it to run so damn rich.
Looks like you had an awesome drive. I spent a week riding motorcyles in CO a few years back, really enjoyed the Park and Estes Park area. Envious of you having that available to make a drive in like you just did.
I agree with Ali, widebands are cheap and given your set up I wouldn't wait to get one in the car and see what you have. There are a lot off possibilities, but having good AFR measurement would be a good start toward troubleshooting. Buy one that doesn't have to be re-calibrated in free air, there are plenty good ones to choose from.
Another solution is move to a state like Bill and I live in, no inspections! Haha. Have a good one Rudy.
I'm glad you enjoyed it!! It's been an awesome ride with this car for the last few years and I'm loving the swap.
Man, trust me, I'm not above that lol. Unfortunately here in CO all of the emissions is state run and as far as I know it's incredibly difficult if not impossible to bribe them. I've heard of "hot smogging" out in CA and have even had friends take part in that process with highly modified cars out there. I've got some investigating to do on my end with the car - although it's incredibly hard to diagnose and swap parts being a VVTI motor...
Hot smogging has been going on for years in CA... and still does... but it has been getting MUCH more difficult now over there since the 2013 revisions to their "STAR" program for licensed smog shops. They covertly send inspectors around randomly to whichever shops they want to for the purpose of seeing if any of the rules are skirted. There are also increasingly cameras to monitor smog techs now... the logs of which can be accessed by the California BAR. Many smog shop owners are not willing to risk their expensive licenses and businesses for these and many other reasons there.
It sounds like Colorado has a similarly strict process these days... except that they don't seem to have California's ridiculously strict visual inspection portion of the tests. That's a good thing because actually passing smog seems to be their primary interest rather than "this factory stock looking Toyota engine isn't supposed to be in this Toyota/Lexus model" or "this part doesn't look like it came from the factory on this engine".
Rudy, I'm much more familiar with the Non-VVT-i GTE engines and I'm learning a lot in your thread about what parts of your 2JZ-GTE VVT-i in regards to troubleshooting.
Craig that makes perfect sense - it's a huge risk to take and I'm surprised it still gets done as much as it does. Thankfully here, like you said, we don't have the same strict visual inspections (usually). I've had them call me out on swaps before and note me for needing an inspection, however, I've been able to cruise across town to another facility and test the same car the same day with no issues. It just depends... However, if the motor is newer than the car, you have a cat and some sort of evap canister (even if it's run to nothing lol) you can usually pass the visual side without any issues.
It's quite the task, I will say. Ryan (SCexy) may come by this weekend and help me look at my 02 wiring - I'm pretty convinced it's reading bad as the car runs SO good on throttle that I'm guessing the ECU is seeing nothing from the 02 and dumping fuel in to be "safe" under off throttle conditions... We shall see!
05-24-21, 07:17 AM
