iLLWiLLeM $125 ISF track car. Yes please.
08-28-20, 03:56 PM
#271
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Hey Dudes. Yeah that's me. Not my car though.. That's the thing I went and shot for a while back.
As far as the video its pretty funny what they cut and what they leave in, but all in all its pretty entertaining.
Couple things about the shoot- I actually went quite a bit faster than the "reveal" in the video says- much more in line with the spread of what an ISF and beemer should have been. I did a low 2:05 the first session but someone overlooked an important thing and forgot to turn the timing loop on... I had a gut feeling and actually pulled into to verify my transponder was working since i knew the first session would have been the fastest of the whole day- sure enough it was Off.. :[ I got back on track and was on a faster lap but got fully blocked at the worst spot by literally the only other person on track that wasn't even involved in the shoot, she was just out for a joyride in our hotlap session running a >10 second delta to our lap times. Honestly, It was frustrating to my competitive side to say the least becasue I knew that it was pretty much curtains for the fast laps of the day and the rest would just be spent getting in car shots and interviews for the production.
I do have this all on video as well as data from my stand alone timer. I may cut something together and upload it but it really doesn't matter honestly. The way the day was set up we weren't supposed to know our 'official' times until the on camera reveal. You can see i'm kinda fighting internally if I wanna butt-in argue the official time when he says it, but it wouldn't have made a difference and would have just felt rather petty.
With 20/20 Hindsight now knowing that they cut everything down anyways, i'd probably say something on the spot if i could go back, Its not at all a big deal but it woulda been a better showing for the ISF.
I also drove the BMW and ran a 2:02 so, Yes. stock for stock that car was faster than the ISF on that day, no doubt. LSD was, by far, the biggest advantage and we discussed it on camera but it didn't make it into the video.
As far as the video its pretty funny what they cut and what they leave in, but all in all its pretty entertaining.
Couple things about the shoot- I actually went quite a bit faster than the "reveal" in the video says- much more in line with the spread of what an ISF and beemer should have been. I did a low 2:05 the first session but someone overlooked an important thing and forgot to turn the timing loop on... I had a gut feeling and actually pulled into to verify my transponder was working since i knew the first session would have been the fastest of the whole day- sure enough it was Off.. :[ I got back on track and was on a faster lap but got fully blocked at the worst spot by literally the only other person on track that wasn't even involved in the shoot, she was just out for a joyride in our hotlap session running a >10 second delta to our lap times. Honestly, It was frustrating to my competitive side to say the least becasue I knew that it was pretty much curtains for the fast laps of the day and the rest would just be spent getting in car shots and interviews for the production.
I do have this all on video as well as data from my stand alone timer. I may cut something together and upload it but it really doesn't matter honestly. The way the day was set up we weren't supposed to know our 'official' times until the on camera reveal. You can see i'm kinda fighting internally if I wanna butt-in argue the official time when he says it, but it wouldn't have made a difference and would have just felt rather petty.
With 20/20 Hindsight now knowing that they cut everything down anyways, i'd probably say something on the spot if i could go back, Its not at all a big deal but it woulda been a better showing for the ISF.
I also drove the BMW and ran a 2:02 so, Yes. stock for stock that car was faster than the ISF on that day, no doubt. LSD was, by far, the biggest advantage and we discussed it on camera but it didn't make it into the video.
08-28-20, 04:02 PM
#272
yeah i figured it wasnt your 125.00 isF since this build thread/progress and the video didn't match up but figured it was you the driver lol.
all in all the point of reliability i think was well made.
that Vanos jab was so well played...lol
all in all the point of reliability i think was well made.
that Vanos jab was so well played...lol
Last edited by Wh0pp3r; 08-28-20 at 04:06 PM.
08-28-20, 04:29 PM
#273
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
In other news, I got back out on track in my own car yesterday. Unfortunately I was having some transmission problems. Trying to diagnose it and come up with a game-plan for a fix, been reading all though the FSM's all day. I sort of have a bit of clarity but im thinking it may be two separate issues happening at once.
Take a look at a video I cut together of the problem here.
CEL codes were as follows.
First session P0796, P2714, P2808
Second session P0796, P2714, P2808, P0746
Third session P0746, P2714
The dead pedal after a rev spike/trans slip didn't immediately trigger CEL's.. I'd reset the car in the hot pit with an on/off cycle re-input the pedal dance and pull back on track, after a few turns the CEL's would then show up. Weird thing was when they'd show up it wasn't also accompanied by a dead pedal. Id get the VSC warning and it would pull timing but the gas pedal worked just fine. It happened 3 times in exactly this scenario.
I did some inspection today and noticed a few things, according to data my steering position sensor does not read any right hand turns after 90* of steering input. Left had turns read all the way to the lock at 410* of rotation or whatever. This may be a separate and unrelated issue but i cant rule it out after seeing in the video that most of the problems happened in right hand turns.
Ill probably just replace the steering rack to see if it fixes the issue. That's easy enough to do.
I got this dead pedal problem on the last track day and I got it in the canyons once since then, After that happened I replaced the throttle pedal thinking the magnetic pick-up may have just been worn out. I'm considering also replacing the DBW electronic throttle body just to be sure that the "Dead pedal' problem is not being caused by an out of sync pedal/TB motor.
All the codes are transmission solenoid related but are throwing codes in different solenoids, a sanity check on this would be helpful if someone knows better than I. I could just go through and check/replace the solenoids as needed.. I could also go though and replace the whole valve body including the solenoids and harness but leave the trans... Im also halfway tempted to just replace the whole trans and call it a day; after all this one has 200k on it. I guess ill just have to price everything out and weigh the PITA cost. At any rate I have a suspicion that the solid mount I put on the transmission has played a part in this, cant prove it- but based on the noise transmission though the chassis since adding its knocking a lot of stuff around in there now that there is no dampening.
Anyone have any thoughts?
Take a look at a video I cut together of the problem here.
CEL codes were as follows.
First session P0796, P2714, P2808
Second session P0796, P2714, P2808, P0746
Third session P0746, P2714
The dead pedal after a rev spike/trans slip didn't immediately trigger CEL's.. I'd reset the car in the hot pit with an on/off cycle re-input the pedal dance and pull back on track, after a few turns the CEL's would then show up. Weird thing was when they'd show up it wasn't also accompanied by a dead pedal. Id get the VSC warning and it would pull timing but the gas pedal worked just fine. It happened 3 times in exactly this scenario.
I did some inspection today and noticed a few things, according to data my steering position sensor does not read any right hand turns after 90* of steering input. Left had turns read all the way to the lock at 410* of rotation or whatever. This may be a separate and unrelated issue but i cant rule it out after seeing in the video that most of the problems happened in right hand turns.
Ill probably just replace the steering rack to see if it fixes the issue. That's easy enough to do.
I got this dead pedal problem on the last track day and I got it in the canyons once since then, After that happened I replaced the throttle pedal thinking the magnetic pick-up may have just been worn out. I'm considering also replacing the DBW electronic throttle body just to be sure that the "Dead pedal' problem is not being caused by an out of sync pedal/TB motor.
All the codes are transmission solenoid related but are throwing codes in different solenoids, a sanity check on this would be helpful if someone knows better than I. I could just go through and check/replace the solenoids as needed.. I could also go though and replace the whole valve body including the solenoids and harness but leave the trans... Im also halfway tempted to just replace the whole trans and call it a day; after all this one has 200k on it. I guess ill just have to price everything out and weigh the PITA cost. At any rate I have a suspicion that the solid mount I put on the transmission has played a part in this, cant prove it- but based on the noise transmission though the chassis since adding its knocking a lot of stuff around in there now that there is no dampening.
Anyone have any thoughts?
Last edited by illwillem; 08-28-20 at 04:33 PM.
08-28-20, 05:34 PM
#274
Moderator
What motor mounts do you have? I don’t have any input that’s worthwhile, other than Lobux mentioning that stiffer motor mounts and a solid trans mount may be enough to start breaking things. Your the first I have seen with this issue.
08-28-20, 05:37 PM
#275
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I have the Figs motor mounts and Figs solid trans mount
https://www.shopfigs.com/v3/URENGINEMOUNTS
https://www.shopfigs.com/v3/FE-L1204...ission%20mount
https://www.shopfigs.com/v3/URENGINEMOUNTS
https://www.shopfigs.com/v3/FE-L1204...ission%20mount
08-28-20, 10:14 PM
#276
May be worth doing a trans fluid level check/reset
08-29-20, 02:50 AM
#277
On mine, got a CEL code for one solenoid one day, next day it was 2 others. Just changed the first one, levelled the trans fluid and it was good, no problem since a year.
On a friend's one, exactly the same problem than yours and on track too, different solenoids in fault, limp mode, dead pedal etc. Just a full trans fluid change and now it runs perfect.
On another friend's one, same problem, but it was the radiator problem and coolant mixed with trans fluid, so radiator change, coolant flush and a full trans fluid change and it runs perfectly too.
On a friend's one, exactly the same problem than yours and on track too, different solenoids in fault, limp mode, dead pedal etc. Just a full trans fluid change and now it runs perfect.
On another friend's one, same problem, but it was the radiator problem and coolant mixed with trans fluid, so radiator change, coolant flush and a full trans fluid change and it runs perfectly too.
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08-29-20, 06:16 AM
#278
Moderator
Will- did you check the fluid level, and if you changed the fluid, what fluid did you use?
08-29-20, 10:42 AM
#279
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Bast59- Thanks for the insight. I'm starting to think its worth checking fluid level again before doing anything bigger than that. Your saying that your friend was also getting the dead pedal symptom? I have been doing searches but I can find no one else in an ISF that has reported anything like that at all.
JWconeil- I just did a trans filter replacement so everything had to come out a few months ago. Could potentially be it, this time I did not remove the trans cooler and fill it up separately I its plausible there was an air pocket. I'm using the recommended WS Toyota fluid.
The weird part about it is I got a lap or two just fine when the day began and it got progressively worse as the day went on (and got hotter) Also when the pedal dies there is no CEL on the dash. I am reading its a '2 cycle code'. It may be that when the pedal dies that's 1 cycle then when I was restarting it and getting back on track that was cycle 2 when the lights would come on.
At any rate i'm maaybe going to change the two solenoids steering rack and the TB to be safe to start with. I just HATE having to take it all the way to the track to find out if its fixed or not.
JWconeil- I just did a trans filter replacement so everything had to come out a few months ago. Could potentially be it, this time I did not remove the trans cooler and fill it up separately I its plausible there was an air pocket. I'm using the recommended WS Toyota fluid.
The weird part about it is I got a lap or two just fine when the day began and it got progressively worse as the day went on (and got hotter) Also when the pedal dies there is no CEL on the dash. I am reading its a '2 cycle code'. It may be that when the pedal dies that's 1 cycle then when I was restarting it and getting back on track that was cycle 2 when the lights would come on.
At any rate i'm maaybe going to change the two solenoids steering rack and the TB to be safe to start with. I just HATE having to take it all the way to the track to find out if its fixed or not.
08-29-20, 12:20 PM
#280
Bast59- Thanks for the insight. I'm starting to think its worth checking fluid level again before doing anything bigger than that. Your saying that your friend was also getting the dead pedal symptom? I have been doing searches but I can find no one else in an ISF that has reported anything like that at all.
He told about it to an ISF specialist here, and was told to flush all the trans fluid, it was like 10 months ago and it's all good.
Here are the CEL codes he had, almost like yours
For the symptoms, yeah I tried the car when it happened, everything was ok when on an exit of a corner there was a trans slip, and after that, car was stucked on 3rd gear and when you go WOT nothing happened, it just stayed at the actual speed, not less and not more. My friend shuts off the car many times and try to run just after, all was ok on the beginning and after the first corner, limp mode, trans slip, dead pedal ...
Yes try to level the trans fluid or flush all the fluid, and you will see. Hope it will work for you
08-29-20, 12:35 PM
#281
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Like you, I've never found anyone else with these problems when I searched when it happened to my friend.
He told about it to an ISF specialist here, and was told to flush all the trans fluid, it was like 10 months ago and it's all good.
Here are the CEL codes he had, almost like yours
For the symptoms, yeah I tried the car when it happened, everything was ok when on an exit of a corner there was a trans slip, and after that, car was stucked on 3rd gear and when you go WOT nothing happened, it just stayed at the actual speed, not less and not more. My friend shuts off the car many times and try to run just after, all was ok on the beginning and after the first corner, limp mode, trans slip, dead pedal ...
Yes try to level the trans fluid or flush all the fluid, and you will see. Hope it will work for you
He told about it to an ISF specialist here, and was told to flush all the trans fluid, it was like 10 months ago and it's all good.
Here are the CEL codes he had, almost like yours
For the symptoms, yeah I tried the car when it happened, everything was ok when on an exit of a corner there was a trans slip, and after that, car was stucked on 3rd gear and when you go WOT nothing happened, it just stayed at the actual speed, not less and not more. My friend shuts off the car many times and try to run just after, all was ok on the beginning and after the first corner, limp mode, trans slip, dead pedal ...
Yes try to level the trans fluid or flush all the fluid, and you will see. Hope it will work for you
You're right, that's basically identical. It can't hurt to try the easy stuff first. I'm on my way to pick up some WS ATF right now. Ill have this knocked out by tonight.
08-29-20, 01:11 PM
#282
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Sounds a lot like a level problem. I can get the transmission to stick in gear after a more than 0.5g turn indefinitely if the level is low by as little as 4 ounces. It also likes to flare first thing in the morning because I drive down a hill and come to a stop at the bottom of the hill. When I go to pull away, I have to give almost half throttle for the transmission to stop flaring. All because the level was just a little low. Once I corrected it, no more problems at all.
If you are using the pedal dance, the steering rack input shouldn't be a big deal, but it might be. VDIM does look at steering angle and makes changes to the ECU for the steering based on a host of factors only Lexus knows for sure. The pedal dance should force the skid control ECU to ignore this entirely, but as we all know, some systems still operate even with the pedal dance (ABS, EBFD, brake assist), so it's impossible to be absolutely certain. It would be really helpful for Lexus to tell us what the engineers did on the CCS racers to avoid these issues, but my experience with getting information from Lexus is nothing short of a stone wall because they're so litigation averse.
If you are using the pedal dance, the steering rack input shouldn't be a big deal, but it might be. VDIM does look at steering angle and makes changes to the ECU for the steering based on a host of factors only Lexus knows for sure. The pedal dance should force the skid control ECU to ignore this entirely, but as we all know, some systems still operate even with the pedal dance (ABS, EBFD, brake assist), so it's impossible to be absolutely certain. It would be really helpful for Lexus to tell us what the engineers did on the CCS racers to avoid these issues, but my experience with getting information from Lexus is nothing short of a stone wall because they're so litigation averse.
08-29-20, 09:39 PM
#283
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
So you guys were right as far as the trans level. It took a decent amount of fluid (over a qt) definitely enough to make a difference with as finicky as these are. Going to go do some road testing tomorrow to verify.
Im trying to figure out why the post filter fluid change was so far off the mark. I know I lost a bit of fluid adding the transmission temp probe for the data logger but that wouldn't have been that much. Maybe when I did it the car wasn't level? I did also notice that in the FSM that there are two way to do the level adjustment- one with Techstream and one with a jumper wire and no Techstream. I have done it both ways, but the last time i did it without the Techstream and that particular set of instructions isn't as clear on telling you to check the fill port with the engine running. I mean, its a stretch, but plausible.
At any rate i think its fixed, just gotta go test it out.
Im trying to figure out why the post filter fluid change was so far off the mark. I know I lost a bit of fluid adding the transmission temp probe for the data logger but that wouldn't have been that much. Maybe when I did it the car wasn't level? I did also notice that in the FSM that there are two way to do the level adjustment- one with Techstream and one with a jumper wire and no Techstream. I have done it both ways, but the last time i did it without the Techstream and that particular set of instructions isn't as clear on telling you to check the fill port with the engine running. I mean, its a stretch, but plausible.
At any rate i think its fixed, just gotta go test it out.
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08-30-20, 10:11 PM
#284
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
So you guys were right as far as the trans level. It took a decent amount of fluid (over a qt) definitely enough to make a difference with as finicky as these are. Going to go do some road testing tomorrow to verify.
Im trying to figure out why the post filter fluid change was so far off the mark. I know I lost a bit of fluid adding the transmission temp probe for the data logger but that wouldn't have been that much. Maybe when I did it the car wasn't level? I did also notice that in the FSM that there are two way to do the level adjustment- one with Techstream and one with a jumper wire and no Techstream. I have done it both ways, but the last time i did it without the Techstream and that particular set of instructions isn't as clear on telling you to check the fill port with the engine running. I mean, its a stretch, but plausible.
At any rate i think its fixed, just gotta go test it out.
Im trying to figure out why the post filter fluid change was so far off the mark. I know I lost a bit of fluid adding the transmission temp probe for the data logger but that wouldn't have been that much. Maybe when I did it the car wasn't level? I did also notice that in the FSM that there are two way to do the level adjustment- one with Techstream and one with a jumper wire and no Techstream. I have done it both ways, but the last time i did it without the Techstream and that particular set of instructions isn't as clear on telling you to check the fill port with the engine running. I mean, its a stretch, but plausible.
At any rate i think its fixed, just gotta go test it out.
09-13-20, 09:00 PM
#285
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
So update, the problem was 100% the fluid level in the transmission. Overfilled by 4oz as suggested and took it back to the track. It was as fast and as crisp as ever.
My goal was to run somewhere in the 1:54's in the AM session. This track day was sold out though, and had some pretty gnarly traffic becasue of it. The organizer had combine two run groups into one to make schedule for some Tesla and a NASA race. This meant I was contending with cars running times that would normally be in a lower group. I was also using some shot-in-the-dark settings on my shocks that proved to be pretty touchy the first (quickest) session. The car just did not like bumps or throttle inputs mid corner- so I was leaving the curbs alone (which is not how you go fast at BW) I had a couple false starts where i'd run almost a full lap then get mired in traffic towards the last sector. I'd back out of it, set up and try again. The two laps you see in the first part of the video are from that first session after a couple start/stops when the tires and car were already hot. Looking at the data I actually ran a few 1:54.1 rolling laps. (for those unaware; rolling laptime is a time that you actually ran if the start/finish line was moved else where on the track.) a good tool to use if you were battling traffic like I was. As the day got hotter I was still able to match the morning session times after adjusting the shocks a bit. In my book, that's considered progress. Tires have rubber but just feel clapped out. going to switch to something else and see how it goes. I also noticed today when I was pulling the car off of the trailer that there was some dots of dried coolant.. going to put it up in the air tomorrow and have a look.
For reference the humble ISF clocked into the top 3 times of the whole day among purpose built racecars Viper ACR, GT2 RS, ZR1 and a bunch of beemers. People kept coming over to my pit spot totally confused as to what kind of car this was. Id say that's a mission accomplished.
My goal was to run somewhere in the 1:54's in the AM session. This track day was sold out though, and had some pretty gnarly traffic becasue of it. The organizer had combine two run groups into one to make schedule for some Tesla and a NASA race. This meant I was contending with cars running times that would normally be in a lower group. I was also using some shot-in-the-dark settings on my shocks that proved to be pretty touchy the first (quickest) session. The car just did not like bumps or throttle inputs mid corner- so I was leaving the curbs alone (which is not how you go fast at BW) I had a couple false starts where i'd run almost a full lap then get mired in traffic towards the last sector. I'd back out of it, set up and try again. The two laps you see in the first part of the video are from that first session after a couple start/stops when the tires and car were already hot. Looking at the data I actually ran a few 1:54.1 rolling laps. (for those unaware; rolling laptime is a time that you actually ran if the start/finish line was moved else where on the track.) a good tool to use if you were battling traffic like I was. As the day got hotter I was still able to match the morning session times after adjusting the shocks a bit. In my book, that's considered progress. Tires have rubber but just feel clapped out. going to switch to something else and see how it goes. I also noticed today when I was pulling the car off of the trailer that there was some dots of dried coolant.. going to put it up in the air tomorrow and have a look.
For reference the humble ISF clocked into the top 3 times of the whole day among purpose built racecars Viper ACR, GT2 RS, ZR1 and a bunch of beemers. People kept coming over to my pit spot totally confused as to what kind of car this was. Id say that's a mission accomplished.