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A *qualified* tuner with a dyno will do a much better job that any Joe Blow doing it for the first time can. Period. It's not debatable. You're not just paying for the use of the shop, or their time, you're paying for their knowledge and experience. Kindly sod off with this anti-expertise stance. You can't street tune a car as well as a tuner with a dyno.
Yes, you can DIY a lot and be perfectly successful. Nothing wrong with that. Experts with the correct tools and experience are always going to do a better job, that's why it's their job.
I agree with your statement. All he is able to adjust is air fuel ratios. hes not touching timing, maf scaling, shift points, etc... and on top of that, the stock ecu is going to be skewing his inputs in closed loop. hes been mentioning his budget, and I personally feel his money can be invested elsewhere. if he can score an hour or two on a dyno for fine tuning than thats recommended. but even after most professional tuners get thru wrapping up some dyno sessions, they still put it on the street to put the car under real load conditions. aerodynamics can really change load values. and no this is not an argument. I want him to tune it himself. thats what I want and I want it now!!!! over the progress of his build, he will be making alot of modifications. I can tell. so it would be in his benefit to be very familiar with his tuning equipment.
I also agree, but for what I'm doing, it doesn't seem worth it. The tuners here don't even want to do it because they hate piggybacks and want a stand alone. I don't think anyone really gets it when I explain to them, the car is only gonna push 8 psi and it's currently responding very well. I really feel like it just needs the air fuel ratios adjusted for the high and low throttle points. And it would greatly benefit me to do it myself and learn how for future use. I'm still researching and trying to decide if the data-logger is the best way. I watched a video of a guy explaining how to tune with an AFC Neo. He had the AEM wide-band and data logger in the car, drove it, pulled the sim card from the logger, put it in his laptop, and had the complete graph of all rpm increments and the afr's for them. He took the graph to the car and took the AFC Neo and made an adjustment to every level +/- fuel. Seemed very simple.
I am aware that stand alone is better and much more can be tuned for and dialed in. I'd leave that to a good tuner and it would be more worth the time and money. But as badblackgs said. I can only adjust afr's with this device. I won't spend $800+ for that to be set. Although it's new territory for me, I just need to do it and make it happen. I will be putting in my colder range plugs and doing my fuel rail/injectors next week. After that is when I will have to start with the tuner. I've heard there is a formula to know right off the bat how much fuel to take from the system across the board depending on the stock injector size compared to the size you install. Anyone aware of this? I'm not sure what OEM size is. But I'm going with 550cc. So I'm sure I'll need to minus 20%-25% across the board for initial start up.
Now is when I need to get serious about the tuning part. So any tips with the Neo would be much appreciated. Deceleration settings, high/low throttle, 20% for low/ 70% for high sound good? What initial % of fuel to take away for initial startup based on my injector swap from stock. Anything I'm missing.. etc.
Also, I'm not sure if it helps or is worth messing with. But remember, I do have an adjustable sprocket on my exhaust cam. Obviously vvti on the intake is going to do it's thing, but if the computer adding/pulling timing is a concern. Would it help to move the exhaust cam a couple degrees retarded? Could I help avoid the dangers of timing changes by changing base timing?
theres one thing you must keep in mind though. when you set your fuel number in the safc, your only setting it to add or subtract fuel at that specific point in the rpm range. your car will be operating under all kinds of different loads while driving so your not always going to have consistent afr numbers. sometimes when im driving my my engine will be at 4k rpms and no boost. than other times when im romping it itll be a 4k rpms and 20 psi. so you have to set your lo throttle to accommodate the 4k no boost points which would likely entail pulling more fuel than you would be with your high throttle set pulling less fuel. your foot is likely in the throttle more which is making boost so your high throttle setting will be a lesser number at that 4k point so it doesn't go lean.
That part I do get. Just inexperienced as it gets. Lets say I had a change of heart and decided to go stand alone. It's not too late and I would obviously get better results. And the tuners around here would stop whining. What is a good one? I'd at least like to look into one before I go further. Also, I know ideally most people go to a speed density setup. But will a stand alone still work off of the MAF/O2 sensors? I am already built and ready to go. Don't want to change things.
There are several popular options. AEM, Link, Haltech... Best bet is to see what your local tuner is most familiar with. It's better for both of you if they don't have to learn a new system.
What do you guys think about the AEM FIC-6? It is still kinda a piggy back, but does timing too. It's affordable new still, buy if I'm lucky and this guy in my area gets back to me, he's selling one with a boomslang plug-n-play harness for only $300! Even if that doesn't pan out a new FIC-6 sells for $375 on eBay. Way more affordable than these $1500 Haltechs and AEM series 2 etc. I asked a tuner about it and they said they've used it on an IS300 with great success. And they said the tune would be $650 with that rather than the $850 for the damn Neo. Just wondering if I'd have to use a MAP sensor or something? I don't expect you guys to know. I just dont want to get a piece of crap and regret it again.
Edit: Ok I just finally found a good write up on the FIC-6 It has an internal MAP sensor that you run a vacuum line to. Still uses the MAF and stuff. Sounds like a good unit.
Spent today doing the finishing touches of the NA-T build. Colder heat range plugs, 550cc injectors and high a flow rail/feed line. Also installed a thermal resistant intake manifold gasket. Was able to clean both parts of the intake out nicely. Car is running super rich now obviously. But it’s ready for the tune.
I took the hit on a whole other tuning devise/harness. Anyone interested can find my $800 Apexi AFC Neo and Boomslang harness for sale in the marketplace. Only asking $500. Sweet deal for someone.
I just got my AEM FIC-6 and harness installed. All I have to do is schedule my date for a dyno tune. Working on getting the car cleaned back up and a few odds and ends I've been wanting to do. I am going to relocate the battery to the trunk and use the original space to better mount my oil catch can and MBC for a cleaner look. Little things like that.
Dyno tune is going down tomorrow! Hope it goes well. Did my battery relocation and cleaned up a few things with better routing etc. took a few pics.
AEM FIC-6 and boomslang harness mounted to the factory ECU cover. Cut the cover to allow the harness to come out. Overall view of everything completed. Mounted battery tray in the spare tire well. Ran the positive wire under the car along the recessed space for the brake lines.
Dont hate on the Econo power battery lol. It came in the car and is still testing good, so using it for now.
It's feeling great! By comparison to probably 180-190whp stock? About 130whp more is quite noticeable. But they went way too rich on the tune and it's throwing a rich code. Gonna have to take it back to them for some finer tuning. Wants to bog down sometimes on acceleration.
It's feeling great! By comparison to probably 180-190whp stock? About 130whp more is quite noticeable. But they went way too rich on the tune and it's throwing a rich code. Gonna have to take it back to them for some finer tuning. Wants to bog down sometimes on acceleration.
Somethings I just don’t wanna experience. 130 extra ponies at the wheels? Gawd... I’d spend all my time in traffic court for speeding.
08-23-19, 08:13 PM
