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I feel its time to give my recommendations for going NA-T or GTE swap for those reading and considering it. Got a few PM's about it now and about the cost etc. I realized that going NA-T is substantially more money than it seems. Especially for someone planning on having a shop do the work.
My long story short is, if you are not able to install a kit yourself and you just gotta have a turbo, you are better off with a GTE swap. I've seen on a few occasions there are shops in a few states that do full GTE swaps (engine, trans, ecu, and parts/labor) out the door for around $6,000. If you were going to pay a shop to go NA-T, you'd be looking at an easy $10k+ IMO. Plus you want a car that is done right and dependable. You get that from a professional install. You don't want to be constantly having little things need done and looked at if you can't on your own and have to take it in and pay each time. The GTE swap in stock form will be cheaper and more dependable for a lay-person to get installed.
If you can do the work yourself, then you are really able to go either route depending on your goals. You can get a GTE engine/trans/harness for in the $3 - $3.5k range now and do the swap. You will be in need of an IC kit, custom down pipe, throttle cable etc. fuel hanger/return setup. And various other things bound to come up. Looking at $4 - $4.5k for a DIY GTE swap in my best estimate. But consider this: That is just to get that stock twinned 240ish whp engine in the car. So more money is needed to go big single on top of that now or later down the line if you want to make any good power. CXracing gives a whp range of between 260-280whp with their 8psi base setting. So going NA-T makes you more power from the get go. But as we know. The GTE is capable of more later on. So it depends on your end goals.
To DIY NA-T is much more difficult to put a price on because there are many ways to go cheap or to go all out. But there is a lot more time and effort involved in a NA-T build that would make having a shop do it ridiculously expensive. So if you can do it on your own, you can get it done for anywhere between $4-$6k and more depending on the quality of parts etc. High end turbo and what not. Lets take my build and what I learned for example. First I started with CXracing's $2200 kit. Found out fuel system upgrades are a must. Injectors and a pump at the very least. For me, some modified Bosch 550cc injectors, a Radium fuel rail kit, and a Walbro 255lph pump was another easy $1,000. After screwing with tuning it is obvious now, just to go standalone. It is worth it. This is another $1,500 if you wire it in yourself, or $2000 if you get some kind of plug n play harness for it which I did. So I was well into the $5,000 range for just what I consider are the necessity's looking back. Another $650 for a dyno tune.
I consider my build to be a pretty normal and realistic price for a decent quality build. Not the best, but far from junk went on my car. And a lot more that ins't required, but needed to make things better and better. So to re-cap:
GTE swap: Definitely the way to go for a lay person. Similar price to a decent NA-T build. Less power out of the box. But far more potential. Probably way more reliable and street-able in stock form (realistically $4,000 - $4500 for a DIY IMO)
NA-T: Probably the better route for a capable DIYer because it will make more power than a GTE swap initially and could potentially be a bit cheaper than I got it done for if doing more on your own by way of: wiring the ecu yourself, self tuning maybe?, less spent on parts, etc. Realistically at least $4,000 to DIY NA-T. That's a kit, some injectors and a pump, and something to tune with. Likely more for most of us. Obviously I spent more, but I did make 315whp rather than 260-280 because of my extra mods. To GTE swap and upgrade to big single would likely be the $4000 for the engine installed plus at least $2000, probably more, for the needed parts to run the big single and fuel/tuning upgrades to handle it. I estimate $6000 (at least) to have a single turbo GTE. That's DIY of course).
I know a lot of this is vague, but it's harder to explain than I thought and getting too long winded. Comments welcome. I will expand on any of my price estimates and my reasons for them if anyone wants. I just wanted to get it out there that people looking into a NA-T build and reading these forums should know, you aren't gonna get a $2,000 kit and be good. That's actually only half of what you need cost-wise. And realistically double that to have it all installed and working right. Easily $10,000 for a NA-T build from a shop. So it's really out of the question if you aren't doing it DIY.
Okay so once again things get more complicated and more expensive. Anyone with experience installing, or just owning a car with a stand alone can try to help me understand what to do here.. I just received my AEM Infinity 506 ECU and a Boomslang PnP harness for it. But it couldn't be that simple could it? No. So here's what's up:
Aside from plugging into the factory harness, the PnP harness has 6 extensions with needed inputs labeled, and with "of course" connectors for AEM's sensors. I imagine I can cut these off if necessary any use some of my sensors. But some of these inputs are not even present on the car. Like the MAP sensor input for example. It wants these connections made to a: MAP, IAT, CAM, LAMBDA, AEM NET, and FLASH.
Using common sense, I know I will have to buy a MAP sensor and plumb it to the intake. I can cut the 2 wire connector off for the cam sensor and run it to the 2 cam wires if it doesn't clip onto the factory cam sensor. Obviously LAMBDA is the wideband O2 (which is of course the older style connector than the one I have ), I don't know what FLASH is for.. and I don't think I need AEM NET... But one of my questions is.. Can I cut the connector for the IAT and run it to the IAT wires in the factory MAF/IAT sensor so I don't have to buy AEM's sensor and drill a place for it in my intake?
Okay so once again things get more complicated and more expensive. Anyone with experience installing, or just owning a car with a stand alone can try to help me understand what to do here.. I just received my AEM Infinity 506 ECU and a Boomslang PnP harness for it. But it couldn't be that simple could it? No. So here's what's up:
Aside from plugging into the factory harness, the PnP harness has 6 extensions with needed inputs labeled, and with "of course" connectors for AEM's sensors. I imagine I can cut these off if necessary any use some of my sensors. But some of these inputs are not even present on the car. Like the MAP sensor input for example. It wants these connections made to a: MAP, IAT, CAM, LAMBDA, AEM NET, and FLASH.
Using common sense, I know I will have to buy a MAP sensor and plumb it to the intake. I can cut the 2 wire connector off for the cam sensor and run it to the 2 cam wires if it doesn't clip onto the factory cam sensor. Obviously LAMBDA is the wideband O2 (which is of course the older style connector than the one I have ), I don't know what FLASH is for.. and I don't think I need AEM NET... But one of my questions is.. Can I cut the connector for the IAT and run it to the IAT wires in the factory MAF/IAT sensor so I don't have to buy AEM's sensor and drill a place for it in my intake?
A little bit apples and oranges here - My setup is a GTE swap with a Boomslang harness connecting my Aristo ECU to a Haltech Elite 2000.
MAP Sensor - I'm assuming you don't have one built into your standalone - I did, so this was a non-event for me. If you do have a MAP sensor on your ECU, I'd just use this and perhaps ignore that input. If the ECU doesn't have a MAP sensor built in, you're on the right track to buy one and plumb it into your intake manifold
Cam sensor I am a little confused about. On my boomslang, it connected the +cam signal from the Haltech to the appropriate pin on the Aristo ECU. Do you have the boomslang wiring harness diagram and can you confirm that there isn't a connection being made on the harness itself?
Lambda is indeed the wideband. Perhaps due to AEM making both the wideband and the ECU, there would be a pluggable option on a different version. Bummer for you. Slice and solder I guess. Be sure and ground the wideband at the same place as the stand-alone grounding point.
FLASH and AEM NET I have no idea about. Could be some sort of other output for gauges, etc., not sure.
IAT- Again on my boomslang harness, it connected the Haltech iat signal to my Aristo ECU that pulled the signal from the car's factory sensor. If you don't have this option (maybe the GS300 didn't have an intake air temp sensor), I'd recommend installing a GM intake air sensor. They're cheap and widely used and of reasonable quality. I expect the AEM sensor is 2x+ the price. I can give you a part number if you want. I think it cost me $20. You will need to scale it for your needs. I found a calculation online that was pretty accurate (IAT is always within a few degrees of my car's ambient exterior temp readout). I eventually went this route because the factory signal was at the MAF and it was flaky. Better to pick it up after the intercooler anyway, it would be closer to accurate of what's headed into the engine.
Thanks for all the insight! I'm going to call my tuner and see what he thinks too. Guess I'll research and see if the infinity has an internal MAP. My FIC-6 does.
With a little more research I've come up with a few things. I really only need a map, iat, and lambda input. All the map sensors from 1 bar, 2, 3.5, and 5 bar all the cost the same and have no ill-effects to go big, so a 5 bar will be good for future growth. AEM:30-2130-75
The IAT signal may be able to run off the factory one that's in the maf. Still have to verify that. I'd like to get rid of the OEM huge restrictive maf and just run AEM's little IAT sensor but I think the maf has to stay in for the transmission operation. So no sense in putting another in if I can just take the signal from it. If I have to, I'll install the IAT, no big deal. AEM:30-2010
The bigger thing on my mind is the wideband/LAMBDA sensor. I have AEM's UEGO sensor/gauge kit (LSU 4.9 they call it) This has the D shaped connector. But the Boomslang has the older (LSU 4.2) square connector. Would I just be able to splice the harness into my existing o2 wires so I dont have to get another o2 installed and would it work for both my gauge and the Infinity? Or would that potentially trip it out? I'd obviously like to run both off my existing sensor.
Glad you have got some things sorted. Yes you will need to keep the MAF for transmission control. An unfortunate reality.
As far at the wideband I suppose you could run it via stock narrowband wiring but I would expect you'll get a CE light because the stock ECU will read it as out of spec. Not sure if there would be other drawbacks to losing the narrowband O2 sensors. Having the new bung welded in should be a pretty inexpensive. I think cost me $50 and I retained the stock O2 sensors.
Agree with using the stock IAT sensor at least to get the car up and running. I'd recommend going with a separate sensor located closer to the intake manifold when you're really wanting to get your tuning dialed in as you raise boost.
Not completely understanding what connection to the wideband from the boomslang you're alluding to. Basically what you need to do is ensure the 5v wire from your wideband - I have the same one I think- is feeding into the correct input spot on your aem. Check your AEM ECU diagram for the correct position.
Not completely understanding what connection to the wideband from the boomslang you're alluding to. Basically what you need to do is ensure the 5v wire from your wideband - I have the same one I think- is feeding into the correct input spot on your aem. Check your AEM ECU diagram for the correct position.
I’ll just post some pics and explain what I’m looking at.
So there is the main block that connects to the factory ecu. And the factory wires plug into it. And obviously the large blue connector goes to the infinity. But these other connectors off shoot with labels for what they go to.
Got the infinity ecu in and just ordered the final three sensors needed. Going with AEM’s 3.5 bar MAP sensor, their IAT sensor, and the LSU 4.2 UEGO wideband that will match up to the pnp harness and be devoted soely to the infinity. Just gonna keep my LSU 4.9 wideband running my gauge I guess.
Yet more confusion.. Neither style of AEM's UEGO sensors fit the connector on the Boomslang harness. I've messaged Boomslang to ask them what sensor exactly is meant for it. Not sure if I'll hear back. But their site clearly states it is wired for AEM's UEGO wideband sensor, AEM net, and AEM Flash. I'm not using the other two, but I do want my wideband to plug in without hacking it up. The harness does fit the AEM MAP and IAT sensors I just got. But not the o2.. Anyone know something I don't?
Okay its figured out. Boomslang got back to me. So I need the 30-3600 extension harness . Of course the harness needs a harness! How dense of me
Having way too much difficulty with this setup. My other stroke of bad luck is that I got another knock off Bosch wideband. This time from a reputable company. I'm very familiar with what a Bosch o2 looks like. So now dealing with getting an exchange or refund and trying another seller. Bosch o2 sensors, NGK plugs, and Walbro fuel pumps are the most counterfeited auto parts on the planet. Be careful and do your research guys. Never buy these kinds of things on eBay or Amazon. I learned this years ago. This time I got the the knock off from Summit Racing which is insane. Have always relied on them for the real deal.
I got the new sensors and ecu installed and scheduled for a tune next Wednesday. Hopefully it comes out good in one tune this time. This time around it has the 3” exhaust, vvti will be functional, and the rev limit can be raised to make more use of the BC cams. Should see a nice improvement in power along with better street ability.
Was also looking into light weight pullys and decided on a set from Driftmotion. Just the ALT, P/S, and WP plleys. Unsure about lightening up the crank pully and don’t want to go underdrive so leaving that alone, and the tensioner pully doubles the price of a set as it is as much as these three on its own because of the bearing it has. I also see it making the least amount of difference, so for $100 you can lighten up these three. Seems like a worth while mod. So hoping to get them on this Sunday before I take the car in. I know this is pretty minuscule by comparison to the major modifications, but all these things will add up in the long run.
Went with black anodized
Lastly I am starting to do some more to the exterior of the car, starting with a set of LED taillights. Will mess with installing them whenever I have time. Probably not a priority till after the tune. This will be a nice upgrade particularly for the old 98 style.
Those pulleys will clean up the engine area nicely, even if they don't provide much in the way of noticeable improvement elsewhere. The 3" exhaust should benefit you as well. I'm interested to hear about the results. As far as raising the rev limit - I've struggled with this despite a stand alone (piggy-backed) setup. Even though we can raise the rev limit of the engine, without some transmission control, there's no way to increase the shift points. So the transmission will still shift at its preset RPM points, I expect. I hope your tuner can prove me wrong, and am certainly interested to hear how, if so.
Those pulleys will clean up the engine area nicely, even if they don't provide much in the way of noticeable improvement elsewhere. The 3" exhaust should benefit you as well. I'm interested to hear about the results. As far as raising the rev limit - I've struggled with this despite a stand alone (piggy-backed) setup. Even though we can raise the rev limit of the engine, without some transmission control, there's no way to increase the shift points. So the transmission will still shift at its preset RPM points, I expect. I hope your tuner can prove me wrong, and am certainly interested to hear how, if so.
I think you are probably right about the shift points. But hopefully it just performs well, that's all I need for now. I'll still ask them to raise the rev limit to around 7500rpm so that if I ever manual swap, I can take it up without cut-out. According to info I've read, stock cams even on a GTE fall off after about 5800rpm. But many report their rev limit being in the 6500-7000 range. So since my cams are supposed to make power 1000rpm over stock, I think 7500 is a safe limit.
10-21-19, 06:26 AM
), I don't know what FLASH is for.. and I don't think I need AEM NET... But one of my questions is.. Can I cut the connector for the IAT and run it to the IAT wires in the factory MAF/IAT sensor so I don't have to buy AEM's sensor and drill a place for it in my intake?
