Hi Guys,
I am new to CL and i need help. I know there are numerous threads on NA-t Build, but i couldn't find much on NA-T vvti. I just bought a 2000 sc300 and trying to do a budget build for now. I am trying to stay auto for now and trying to stay with in 350-375hp.
if i want to stay with this engine and transmission, what engine management should i use or can i stick to stock ECU or can i use Aristo ECU or should i go with JDM aristo engine, transmission and ECU.
Thanks

 

Save your money. Do it once. Especially if you don't have another vehicle to drive while working on the Sc

IF you want to do manual eventually i'd say start there first because you can get much cheaper ecu options for a manual car.

Using all JDM stuff would probably be most plug and play and tune friendly if you don't need emissions and obd2

 

its not my daily. It's for my nephew and I dont want to give him a high HP car yet. He's only 19. I want him to get use to 350hp get a hang of it and than go from there.

 

Honestly if he's 19? I'd leave the 2JZ-GE stock and focus on the manual swap, suspension and especially upgraded front bakes. Even 350hp in one of these cars is very easy to let get out of control with little experience or in moments or developing impulse control (no offense to him at all, btw). My first car was a big RWD coupe V8 four barrel Holley carb automatic with a very torquey 240-250hp. It was plenty to get me into trouble but not enough to get wildly out of control.

The SC with a well done suspension setup, manual swap, LSD and brake upgrade is a pretty focused car with only 225hp. As you probably know already.

Besides, you (or he) will need to swap in a 92-97 GE block or GTE engine or pull the GE VVT-i engine and build the bottom end for boost anyway.

For this you can use OEM Toyota bearings with 92-97 GE or GTE rods and 92-97 GE pistons+rings with an OEM Toyota 2JZ-GTE head gasket and ARP head bolts. The stock GE VVT-i head will be fine. Then you'd need a suitable exhaust manifold like a Treadstone and whatever turbo you like up to about 60mm in size. A 2JZ-GTE VVT-i ECU can control all of that. Then the standard fuel system upgrading applies (Denso TT pump, 12V Fuel Mod w/relay, upgrade to 550cc injectors, and for 98-00 SC300's you will need to add a return fuel line to the fuel tank). The power level you will get from that combination is a completely different animal compared to the stock NA 2JZ-GE VVT-i which is generally known as being neither fast nor exactly slow but somewhere in the middle.

Still... even for a mature 19 year old I'd avoid the turbo for now and focus on the rest of the car. If he wants to convert the car to manual it's a good project for you both to do an R154, AR5 or CD009 manual trans swap. If staying automatic, leave the existing transmission for NA and for turbo duty find a GTE-spec Toyota A340E transmission from a Supra TT Auto, Aristo 2JZGTE or any 1JZ-GTE Toyota.

Really, upgrading an SC's suspension, front brake calipers, wheels, tires and swapping to manual and installing an LSD changes these cars so much from the factory stock automatic feel even with the same horsepower. For a fairly new driver where having too much power might be a concern it's a very good SC300 setup that can always be upgraded later on.

 

Don't forget the LS400 front brakes for extra stopping power.

 

Thanks a lot for that detailed info. I am going to focus on suspension,brakes and manual swap. If I go with cd009 should I go with TT auto diff?
Does any one have wiring diagrams to do auto to manual.

 

If you go with a CD009, you can get a diff from a 98-00 SC400 or a SC430. The ratio is 3.26...

 

I agree with Craig (Kahn). If he's not used to a RWD car just yet (as I was not either at that age), manual swap that bad boy, throw an LSD in the rear diff, and let him throw that thing around in parking lots until he can wheel it with confidence. My 2jzge car with a 5-speed W58 and a KAAS lsd installed was an absolute riot and would continue to challenge my driving abilities on the track.

Don't get me wrong... I had a very quick car as a 19 yr old, however, it wasn't RWD and I was very lucky to not get into as much trouble as I should have in that car...

I think it's very cool you're helping him put together a car like this. They're built well, sound great with an exhaust, and will give him a truly unique and awesome car to learn to work on and appreciate.

Best of luck!

 

I wouldn't be so quick to offer advice on a cd009 swap, it is probably the least straight forward manual swap on these cars with the worst feeling shifter in barely the right spot by the time you are done spending alot of $$.
I wouldn't wish that upon anyone learning to drive a manual for the first time, its worse then the shortest shifter you can remember driving unless they improved upon it a bunch lately.

A manual swap is good advice though, just wait for/find a factoy w58 out of a sc300 or a mk4 supra when someone is upgrading.
It will all bolt up more or less, and have a good factory shift feeling to it (cause its factory).

You will throw a check engine light being a 2000 automatic car with a manual swap, as long as you don't have emissions or are ok with the check engine light, then you are fine.
There is no manual USDM vvti ecu that you can swap in to make the codes work, all the sc 98+ are automatic. The IS ecu's are too much work to adapt to the SC generally speaking.

So as long as you dont have to worry about codes then go for it, otherwise leave the engine/transmission stock and do the other sporty stuff like stiffer suspension, ls400 brakes, bigger wheels/tires, and lsd etc...

I can say when I first got my 95 sc300 5spd, it was all factory and I thought it was pretty quick, even compared to my previous '93 240sx 5spd which are pretty quick too for a small car.
I have had several automatic SC's over the years, and none of them put a smile on my face like that factory 5spd. It was planted and responsive, but would still spin around on you if you were not paying attention in the wet stuff.
I spun it around enough times to know when it was coming, and if I hadn't taken that time before I turbocharged it I probably would have crashed it learning.
Just my .02c I have driven them at lots of different power levels and as long as they were manual they were plenty fun to drive and learn on.
And don't do the lsd at first, let him/her get used to the open until they get a feel for it... the lsd is an unforgiving mechanical beast.

 

^^ Agreeing with Ali SC3 here.

The CD009 *can* be done but it's probably not a beginner manual transmission for this car. An SC300-spec or MKIV NA W58 (extension housing or tripod) will do just fine for NA duty and was built to last without the stress of turbo boost. I was very happy with my stock W58 that my car came with and it suited the car very well.

When I switched to an R154 (which you can also do as a more expensive bolt-in swap that is turbo-stress-capable by design) it also worked well with the NA engine but felt beefier, slick-ish with the short shifter I got but definitely a heavier shift feel due to the bigger gears inside the box. The W58 has better shift feel but the R154 is not *that* far off unless it's an older one from an MKIII Supra with a tremendously long aftermarket extension housing. The one I use has an OEM Toyota Soarer extension housing and a short shifter and it does well. But it's backing a turbo engine where it is needed. A W58 behind a stock NA 2JZ-GE will be smoother.

However I will say that the stock W58 OEM Toyota clutch is cheap and easy to use and learn on and even for an R154 backing an NA 2JZ-GE... the cheap OEM Toyota Supra MKIII Turbo clutch kit that will be overkill reliable for an NA 2JZ-GE engine's power output is also very easy to use and will have good pedal feel.

Now as for a manual pedal you may have to find the OEM parts used at this point but I think they are still available new at this time. If not there is a manual pedal kit for SC's sold by Xcessive Manufacturing. With that you will want to get the OEM SC300 5-speed manual brake pedal.

...

Regarding LSDs... you know I do have to agree that what is best is to leave the rear end with an open diff for now. For one thing, the 4.27 ratio makes for a very responsive 5-speed manual SC. Some prefer the stock 5-speed manual 4.083 ratio though.

But for another... these cars don't have traction control with a 5-speed. Well, that 2000 SC300 will have it but I don't know if it will work effectively with a manual swap. If you luck out on a 1.5-way Torsen T-1 LSD center from a Supra TT Auto and rebuild the rear diff with that part it will make for a very daily driveable car but one which you must take extra caution with in the rain and especially use with high performance summer tires with good rain traction reviews from other performance RWD car owners.

When I first got my Torsen LSD installed with the 4.272:1 ratio it made for a VERY fun canyon carving experience. However I did spin out a couple of times very unexpectedly which was a terrifying set of experiences. Once due to tires that had no business being used in rain and another time with much better tires where I caught the sudden tail-out skid before anything got bad. I had driven RWD cars before but it was a learning experience for me which taught me about the balance of the car.

The Torsen can under the right circumstances snap to the rear end to the side as it attempts to redistribute torque evenly to both spinning wheels when one wheel suddenly loses traction in a slick area (for instance). Personally I have no problem driving on one every day in most all weather but I'm very used to it and know how it reacts back there when power is applied in different ways. And I tend to drive very calmly and gently when it's raining out with no sudden inputs.

I pushed that setup in my SC on Cali mountain roads pretty aggressively (no turbo... just the stock 2JZ-GE NA engine)... but I always knew where the limits were. The potential issue is that if someone is very new to driving in general and new to driving a big GT performance chassis regardless of its power level or lack of turbo boost, you can overstep those limits in the wrong situation if you're not careful and intuitive and experienced enough. Yes you need experiences to gain experience but you can also gain a lot of skill in one of these SCs without the high cost of an LSD install right away. Let it be something for him to work up to at least.

Additionally I think the above comments are also referring to much more common and much more aggressive aftermarket 2-way LSDs which lock up on de-acceleration as well as acceleration. In comparison to a Torsen T-1 (or a Torsen T-2 which do exist for these cars but as super rare imports from JDM cars mostly) these are harsher to get used to and live with day to day. But all styles of LSD are certainly fun in an SC. But with them you will need to learn how to control the car very well when its rear end breaks loose and counter-steering skill is extremely important.

For what it's worth, at current time I've been daily driving my 340hp SC300 5-speed with a 3.92:1 open diff for months now and while I do need my 1.5-way LSD back in the car for better control it's really fine for daily use and especially for a very new driver. An LSD can always be an upgrade later. I think the manual swap is a bigger initial priority than an LSD install.

...

My first car with its 240hp V8 and 3-speed automatic had an open diff 2.79:1 rear end with a solid axle and drum brakes all around. I did some very very silly things with that car and looking back I was not ready for more power or a road race + LSD suspension yet. But it had plenty of torque to move itself, made amazing exhaust noise and was fun to drive regardless.

The two upgrades that it never got but which I now wish I had done from the very start were: upgrade the front brakes and swap to a manual transmission.

I feel the same applies for a new 19 year old driver with a RWD SC300/400. The car will be MUCH safer with a 1995-2000 LS400 front brake caliper swap and it will be much more *fun* all around with a good manual transmission. An SC300-spec or MKIV-spec W58 with a stock Toyota OEM clutch will do perfectly for that.

.....

And yes as Ali mentions above you will get a CEL light with a manual swapped 1998-2000 SC300 and the IS300 M/T ECU is going to be too much of a chore to convert for SC use electrically. So if smog presents an issue with a constant CEL then that might be the one roadblock. 1992-1997 SC's can get converted to manual and use factory manual ECUs that were designed for all those model years and thus... no CEL. But if it's not going to be an issue then do not worry about it.

There's kind of a fix for it if you look up threads by a CL member named "cartmill". He shows how to defeat at least one of the CELs on his 98 SC300 with a W58 manual swap. I believe it's a thread called something like "98 SC300 backup light fix manual swap". Try some search variations on that with his user name and see what comes up.

 

Kahn, I tried that fix on my 2001 tacoma, resistors for every solenoid and whatnot... in the end I got close but I couldn't get it to work 100%.

I got rid of every code except for the second speed sensor that is on automatic transmissions.
It is used by ecu to make sure it is in the right gear as it compares that speed of the output (regular VSS on all auto / manual that goes to dash) to the internal speed (a 4 rotor type VR sensor setup only on autos).

In the end, I mounted a second speed sensor to trigger off the driveshaft bolts going to the transfer case (4 of them like the rotor), and it actually got rid of the codes and the ecu was happy.... Or so I thought.
What would happen then is on the highway, if I shifted it like how I would picture an automatic shifting, it would be just fine.
If I accelerated too much in fifth without downshifting, or if I downshifted without getting on the throttle enough (things the auto doesn't do), I would throw a code for mismatched gear ratio.

I didn't even know that code existed before it happened to me.
So while I did get rid of every single code, and could keep it off mimicking the auto shifting on the highway... it would still happen from time to time when I forgot and it wan't very fun to drive that way.
So I bit the bullet and got a manual ecu for my tacoma and now no more issues.

I guess one could keep it off the highway or drive it normally for emissions and whatnot where it doesn't seem to throw codes (one of the conditions is above a certain speed)...
but it isn't a 100% solution and you know I love those 100% solutions

I really wanted it to work so I could manual swap lots of cars that only came with auto ecu's, and I thought that 4 rotor trick was going to do it but I didn't realize the ecu compared the speeds to see if it was in the right gear on the highway.
I think one could make a controller, to output the correct signal based off of the rear VSS and the gear output by the ecu to feed back into the stock ecu.. but my programming days are behind me maybe someone can program an Arduino for that.

 

Thanks a lot for all the help guys. Yes I already started working on suspension and ls400 front brake upgrade. Like you guys said that cd009 is not a good Idea, what if I go with r154 that came out of soarer do I have to modify the bell housing and the shifter or is it direct fit?
can I also use gs430/sc430 diff?
I believe the ratio is 3.27 if im not mistaken. To me that sounds like less of a headache than going cd009 but again you guys are the experts, so I would like to get your input on this. I dont want to go w58 because eventually I am going to turbo the car once he's good and bit more experienced.

 

R154 would be more straightforward and depending on what it came from it can bolt up like if its from a JDM soarer shifter will be in the right spot.
Lots of places offer extensions for shifters, and there are like 4 different ways to put together a R154 style transmission so do a search on that but if you plan to go turbo eventually then go with the R154.

You do not want/need a 3.27 ratio with a R154 unless you are talking about big power and high speed high HP pulls.
It fits, but 3.27 is for 6 speed transmissions with closer gear ratios, the 5spd will be terrible down low with that rear end.

The stock auto rear end ratio is 4.27 which will be shorter but perfect until you are turbocharged.
A stock mk4 supra 5spd has a 4.27 rear end with a w58 which is very very close to the R154 gearing wise.

When you go turbo, either get a mk4 auto tt LSD with the 3.76 ratio which is perfect for a turbo 5 speed, or since they are hard to find next best is a 92-97 sc400 rear end with a 3.92 ratio and install a lsd in that.
In fact that 3.92 is a pretty common combo with the right lsd and a 5speed, and for good reason. The 3.76 is great but those are hard to find and people break the stock toyota lsd's with big power so it just depends.

And to note for others, the mk4 6spd diff is a different size internally and does not mix and match with our rear diffs, but the whole pumpkin can be swapped in but is rarer to find these days and $$

Rough list:
92-97 SC300
6 cyl, AT (4.27 ratio)
6 cyl, MT (4.08 ratio)

98-00 SC300 VVTI
6 cyl, AT (4.27 ratio)

92-97 SC400
8 cyl (3.92 ratio)

98-00 SC400 VVTI
8 cyl (3.266 ratio)

92-96 MKIV Supra

w/o turbo; (4.27 ratio) Limited Slip
w/o turbo; (4.27 ratio)
w/turbo, MT (3.133 ratio) Limited Slip
w/turbo, AT (3.769 ratio) Limited Slip

97-98 MKIV Supra
w/o turbo; (4.08 ratio) Limited Slip
w/o turbo; (4.08 ratio)
w/turbo, MT (3.133 ratio) Limited Slip
w/turbo, AT (3.769 ratio)
w/turbo, AT (3.769 ratio) Limited Slip

 

^^ Again, everything Ali said above!

Yeah, I can vouch from experience that swapping to a good R154 with 100% stock 2JZ-GE NA engine + OEM Toyota Supra MKIII Turbo R154 clutch kit + 4.272:1 rear end is a good combination. If you plan for the car to go turbo anyway, go R154 from the start and just throw the inexpensive $230 OEM Toyota clutch in there which will be more than enough reliability for the engine's stock power output.

I drove on that setup for a few years and loved it as much as I liked my old W58.

Later on when that SC goes turbo it will of course need a much pricier and more capable clutch. But for NA use? The cheap and ultra reliable Toyota R154 clutch is perfect, long lasting (with an NA 2JZ) and very easy to operate.

Also when the car does go turbo and get a beefy clutch we usually disable the Neutral Safety Switch on SC original 5-speed. It has to do with protecting the rear 2JZ thrust bearing at startup with the R154's stock puller style clutch system. Therefore it's a good habit to drill in to always start an R154 swapped 2JZ car in neutral with no clutch pedal depression (and to check for neutral first like a reflex of course). Expensive twin plate clutches with a movement change system to push type (like the W58) largely eliminates this concern but it's a good measure of safety for the longevity of the 2JZ engine.

Do note that if you pick up a 1986.5-1992 MKIII Supra R154 you should probably get it rebuilt with Marlin Crawler and Driftmotion parts. OEM 1JZ bellhousing. For the shift housing extension you can get the OEM Soarer 1JZ R154 housing replica service (seems to be a replica of that part to me) from Xcessive Manufacturing. Also use XCessive's transmission crossmember for SC's with an OEM Supra MKIII R154 rubber mount. Shifter with that housing can be by Cube Shifters. Or alternatively use Driftmotion's longer extension housing service and a Beech straight shifter. Used Suprasport V2 and V3 short shifters are also good (I use a V3 in my SC w/R154). And you'll need a Marlin Crawler mechanical speedo to Toyota 3-wire VSS adapter ($50).

The 1992-1993 Soarer R154's that are still the extension housing type will have 3-wire VSS speed sensors built in and will use the stock SC300 5-speed crossmember and SC300/MKIV W58 rubber transmission mount. And those will have the 1JZ bellhousing already as part of them.

All later R154's are "tripod" type and have all the improvements of the early Soarer R154 gearboxes plus the newer shifter design and placement.

You'll have to cut the transmission tunnel for any of these. Be sure to include a heat/dust/noise boot to insulate the tunnel opening and keep the heat and noise from rising into the cabin.

For speedo correction pick up a Yellr Yellowbox V5 with their SC/MKIV specific plug-and-play harness (you request this at the time of ordering via email to them). If you look up this thread I show how to install the older V4 version and calibrate it. Same basic procedure:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...ml#post7250024

 

Ali, thank you for bringing this up. I had thought there were finally a fix for the 98-00 manual swap CELs (all of them) but apparently not. Your research and trial and error got us that much closer I think but you're right that at this point we'd probably need a little extra electronics help to give the ECU rest of the trickery that it requires to be happy. I'm not skilled with Arduinos either but something like that is probably going to be the eventual solution.