Crevasse

Hey guys, I recently picked up my first SC300, a stock 1995 automatic.

My intention has always been to get an automatic then do a manual swap because autos are cheaper and easier to find. I have access to an R150 from a 1996+ 2WD Tacoma and wanting to know if that swap was possible, I've scoured this forum for guides or info on an R150 swap but have come up empty-handed. I've seen other guys ask about it, but those threads either have no response or have people saying they are going to "check on it and post later" but the thread just dies off or turns into people discussing R154 vs W58 vs CD009, etc. Some have responses with links to the marlincrawler.com main page but that isn't super helpful as I've searched Marlin Crawler, SupraForums and TacomaWorld as well and discovered the same thing: Lots of missing information, lots of "I'm not sure, it might be possible, it might not."

After digging through dozens of dead-end threads I finally found http://www.supracharged.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10604 that outlined the difference in lengths of the input shafts. For sale on eBay right now is a custom bellhousing that can pair an R150 to a 2JZ (https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-R154...IAAOxy0bRTEKeM - Spoke with the seller directly, they confirmed it will mate '96+ R150 to 2JZ).

My first question is, would this setup of trans+bellhousing fit? And second, if it did, what would I need to consider when getting a flywheel, clutch kit, shifter, mount, slave/master cylinder, etc.? Would the driveshaft need to be changed?

If there really is a complete guide floating around somewhere of someone who has documented a completed swap like this and I have somehow been blind to it, please share. Any helpful insight/input is appreciated, but I'm not interested in getting into the weeds on the gearing ratio of a truck transmission, etc. I'm aware of the difference, and that isn't my question. I've got an opportunity to use an R150 and I want to explore it. If, at the end of the day, what I'm looking for is truly impossible, then yes, I'll go the R154 route. But so far I can't find a single thread of someone saying "I've tried the R150, it's impossible, here's why." On the contrary, I've seen several mentions where people have done it or know someone who has done it, just without any details at all.

Thanks!

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

A 96+ r150 (off a 5VZ) has the long input shaft already, all you need to do is bolt all the R154 bellhousing and stuff onto it (and the r154 clutch is a pull clutch).

You do not need the ebay bellhousing, that one that is meant for short shaft R150 which are below 95 (off a 3vz) and converts to a push clutch like a w58 (because the 3vz and 5vz both use push clutches which are simpler).
They do make an extension that lets you use this shorter bell on the longer input shaft versions, which you can use but you would be converting to a w58 push style clutch and flywheel.
generally the w58 clutches will hold less power than the r154 clutches unless you get like a twin disc w58 or high clamping w58 clutch then you could go this route and use the w58 stuff.

Most people with the long input shaft R150 just use all the R154 stuff: bellhousing, clutch fork, bearing/retainer etc... all the OEM r154 stuff, and bolt it on with a R154 flywheel and clutch.
The only real difference between the 96+ r150 is that first gear is really deep, meant to move a heavy truck.. so you might find yourself shifting to 2nd really quick alot of the time (my tacoma has this trans in 4x4 and its not too bad once you hit 2nd).
The next issue is the shifter will need to be extended, like a mk3 r154 more or less.
The long input shaft 96+ R150 is also slightly different input shaft length than a R154, but they are close enough that it works just fine.

driveshaft you can probably use a sc300 manual driveshaft, but not 100% if it will be the right length but probably pretty close.
*edit* see rest of thread for driveshaft info the stock sc300 manual has a different spline count doesn't work.

You would probably find more info on this in the tacoma forum where members have dropped in a 2jz, which is why I know the various combos.
96+ r150 is easy to bolt to a 2jz with the r154 bellhousing and all the r154 clutch stuff, and has been done many times, its just not popular with the SC crowd.

Crevasse

Thanks for the info--really appreciate the clarity and quick response!

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Also going to post this info here for others looking to use the truck based transmissions, whether its in a truck or car.
There is a newer trans R155 that came on the 05+ tacoma 4 cylinder trucks and in the last few years there was a R156 which is the same thing but with another improvement on the sychros.
If you see an "F" at the end like R150F/R155f/R156F that just means it is 4x4 so the back housing accepts a transfer case, and is not the one you want for 2wd.

Since the R155 and R156 were bolted up to the 4 cylinder, from my research they use the shorter input shaft, like a pre 96 r150 that came with the 3vz.
So if one wanted to use one of these newer transmissions, you could do it with the ebay shorter bellhousing and use a push clutch setup (All w58 stuff oem or aftermarket).

This is the same as you do with bolting a 2jz to the pre 96 r150 when swapping into an older truck, cause for 4x4 you need a passenger side drop transfer case and the newer tacoma 96+ are meant for a drivers side drop. They make adapters to use a different transfer case on the newer r150f, but it is easier to just use the right combo of parts with the older one and the shorter bell.

So it mostly depends on what length input shaft you have when 2wd to decide on the bellhousing, but when considering 4x4 you also have to choose the trans that will have the correct transfer case drop.

It seems like the R156 was discontinued a couple years ago as the 4 cyl manual option changed on tacomas, but they sold so many 3rd gens there are plenty r155's sitting around in lots.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the update to include the R155 and R156, Ali! I had no idea both of those could use W58 clutch parts even though they are "R" transmissions. Given how they're both geared what rear end ratio would you say is optimal for them? Still between 3.769 or 3.916?

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Yeah, anytime you use that conversion bellhousing that is sold online for R150 to 2jz, it converts to push, notice the clutch fork is on the other side.
You have to pay attention to the bellhousing length cause they make a short and long version now, and a short version with a spacer to work on both I think.
It is basically designed so you unbolt all your fork/bearing etc.. of your original r150 v6 bellhousing and just bolt them onto this bellhousing and bolt to a 2jz with push parts (w58).

Both the 3vz and 5vz used the push clutch setup like the w58, in fact most toyota setups are this way.
The 5VZ got a longer input shaft, and since it is similar to the r154 you would think maybe its a pull, but its still a push with a taller release bearing.. main difference between 3vz and 5vz.

So the r154 was really the odd man out, long input shaft with the pull setup (probably did it cause of the higher strength PP and fits in tighter spaces, like v160 etc..).
All the other R series were a push setup just like the W series, and the 96+r150 was the long input shaft. There was also an Ax15 with a long input shaft and probably a few other obscure ones.

All of them are pretty bad gearing for 1st gear, you just get it moving and hit second when you can, don't wind out first for speed.
The 1-2 shift can feel quite spaced apart also as you can see from the gearing below it is a much larger jump.

These are from marlin crawler website, has the 4x4 versions listed but the ratios for 2wd are same/similar I think.

R150F 1992-95 3.830 2.062 1.436 1.000 0.838
R150F 1995-04 3.830 2.062 1.436 1.000 0.838
R154 1986-92 3.250 1.955 1.310 1.000 0.753
R155F 2005+ 3.95 2.06 1.44 1.00 0.81

So normally R154 you go from 3.2 to 1.95.. but on truck versions you go from 3.8 to 2.06, and that .6 difference is noticeable.
As you can see, it is mainly first gear, and if you lower the rear end to compensate you will sort of hit a gap in that 1-2 shift.
Best to keep the rear end the same and short shift first, it's not perfect but would be workable.. 1st would be great for burnouts though

Crevasse

Hey Ali, you mentioned the Manual SC300 driveshaft as an option. Would a MKIII Supra R154 driveshaft be viable? I know the wheelbase is different between the Supra and the SC300, but is it significant enough to make it incompatible? Thanks!

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I am not 100% on the combinations, Kahn is familiar with them and has been working on his in his thread so maybe check with him if he doesn't post in here again.
I think people use the front of the mk3 driveshaft connected to the rear of the stock SC driveshaft as there is a center carrier bearing where they attach, that fixes most of the wheelbase issues.
I think that puts you pretty close, but it is a little too long or short on some cars can't remember, I think long but you can cram it in there, I know Kahns combo is a little long see his thread.

*edit* whoops I was thinking AR5 for a second never mind.

You might want to just get an auto SC driveshaft that has the slip yoke in the front (you might have one on your car already depending on the year), and then once it is all installed just get a length measurement from the carrier bearing to the back of the trans and have a shop modify the length (probably going to be an extension as the manuals are shorter than the autos). I think the front length is the main difference between the SC auto and manual shafts, and you wont have to swap the rear.
It would be cheaper than finding a mk3 front shaft and then modifying it, if you had one and it was bolt in then fine, but sometimes it ends up a hair too long etc.. like Kahn is dealing with right now.

I have swapped 2 cars from auto to manual that needed driveshaft changes and the driveshafts that were bolt in were either silly expensive or took too long to arrive, so I always finish the swap and the last thing I do is measure the driveshaft, with everything in place tightened down, and once that measurement is good I drop off the original driveshaft at the shop and I usually get it back the next day and it is relatively inexpensive.

Crevasse

Again, thanks so much for the detailed response. I do currently have the stock auto driveshaft on the car. I've tried searching for info regarding the slip yoke, can't seem to find it. The question is asked here https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...-for-r154.html but it devolves into front driveshaft lengths (which is also useful). It seems that MKIII supra parts are more common on eBay than Soarer parts, but either way it seems that there are enough options that one way or another I'll get it figured out.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Khan just reminded me the w58 driveshaft has a different spline yoke on it, but I think the auto and R series slip yokes are similar spline wise.
I wouldn't worry about that part until you get there, you will have to get something made more or less with this trans but its not as big of a deal as it sounds once you get to that point.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ Ali is right on the money. Sorry I didn't reply again here sooner.

The main thing you need to determine is the length that needs to be adjusted by a driveline shop (and one which can not only lengthen or shorten driveshafts but also one which has a balancing machine capable of working with OEM two-piece driveshafts) in relation to the rear of your R150 transmission. And a driveline shop will need both the front and rear parts (sans rear donut) to do a proper balancing.

I don't know myself but IF the transmission with 1JZ bellhousing on all the way to the tailhousing at the input area is exactly the same length (ie: total transmission length) as an R154 then everything I am about to post below will apply to the R150 as it will the R154. So the total length of both R series transmissions is important. Hopefully those tail housings are the same length.

For the SC300 using an R-series you can keep the stock rear driveshaft. Those should always be the same length. And you want to keep the SC center bearing for sure. You can bolt up whatever is compatible to that rear driveshaft. Length changes (or swaps) should all be in the front driveshaft only.

Now you can use an MKIII R154 front driveshaft and it WILL fit but the main issue is that the transmission rear dust cup must be removed and the clearance will be VERY tight. Maybe not enough to cause binding but it isn't ideal as Toyota intended and the risk is the integrated cup on the MKIII driveshaft cutting onto your R154's tail housing a bit. Depending on how it fits in your car it may or may not be so tight as to cause any other issue but the factory specification slip play that should be there... isn't... when using this combination.

The reason for this actually has to do with bellhousing differences. The MKIII R154 front driveshaft (from an MKIII model type with a 7M-GTE engine) was intended for an R154 with a 7M bellhousing which is actually 20-25mm shorter than the 1JZ-GTE R154 bellhousing that we need to bolt up an R-series to a JZ engine block.

Coincidentally the MKIII R154 front driveshaft is right at about 20mm (or 3/4" or 0.78") too long in an R154+SC300 application. As mentioned above it will fit and work-- I was able to use mine without issue for 7 years until recently for some reason but clearance was always tight-- but it is not where it should be at specification the way Toyota intended it. A Soarer Z30 R154 front driveshaft will be a bolt in correct length affair.

Again... I am assuming the R150 is exactly the same length as an R154 with a 1JZ-R154 front bellhousing. Hopefully this is the case but I have no personal experience to say so definitively. Measuring with the driveshaft bolted up in the car is the best way.

Now since you have an SC300 Automatic you do have what you need to have the front driveshaft custom modified as you need it. As Ali mentioned the R154 and SC300's A340E as well as GTE A341E's all use the same 23 spline engagement slip yoke.

In fact years ago I was fraudulently sold a "Soarer R154" front driveshaft and since I did not know better at the time I installed it.... but found it was 2" too short. I had to drive home from another state VERY gently with barely any spline engagement and transmission oil spewing out the back all the way. This was in fact an SC300 Auto front driveshaft that I had been sold. That's when I found one from an MKIII with an R154.

Again, assuming the R150 is exactly the same length at the rear as an R154 (both with a 1JZ bellhousing) then your SC300 Auto front driveshaft should be 50mm too short (1.96") and will require extension of that length amount to have correct engagement. If a driveline shop does that for you and balances it then you will end up with your own custom made "Soarer R154" front driveshaft.

.....

Soarer parts are not very common on ebay. MKIII parts tend to be because a LOT of MKIII Supras were made worldwide compared to MKIV's. Soarers I think were made in sizable enough numbers but they're already catching on now in popularity. The main reason is probably due to Soarers being more of an import better established in Australia, New Zealand and a couple of other countries where they have been enjoying them for years before we got the privilege (antiquated 25 year U.S. importation law thanks to Mercedes, BMW and GM's lobbying around 1986-87).

....

The bottom line is that a Supra MKIII front driveshaft will swap over and work once you change out the center bearing to the SC center bearing and if you remove and save the R154's rear dust shield.... but clearance will still be tight for some installations and you may get some initial scraping at the back of the transmission. It's still better to get it professionally shortened by 20mm / 3/4" and rebalanced with the rear SC300 driveshaft.

**Also buy 1x new crush nut 90179-18009 and 2x new washers 90201-25006 and carefully inspect the threads at the end of that driveshaft to be sure they are straight and weren't harmed by someone prior to your ownership of it-- ask me how I know about that one...

But since you still have your SC300 Auto front driveshaft and since it's already that much closer in design to a Soarer R154 front driveshaft other than its length I'd just take a measurement the length difference when it's barely inserted into your R150, remove the front and rear sections and take those to a driveline shop for lengthening to (according to my own research) +50mm / +1.96". If I still had the SC300 Auto front driveshaft I'd bought a long time ago I would have measured but at the time it was virtually worthless and I junked it at a scrap metal dealer. Now I wish I hadn't.

Save that R150 rear dust cup btw. It really should be used once your driveshaft is the correct length.

Crevasse

Got the R150 out of the Tacoma! Now I need to get a hold of a bellhousing, clutch fork, both cylinders, pedals and a flywheel. Is it worth it trying to find a 1J Bellhousing on eBay or should I just get one from Driftmotion https://www.driftmotion.com/1JZ-2JZ-...sing-p/dm3.htm?

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Excellent! That was a lot of work now out of the way! It's looking good and clean too!

Get a 1JZ bellhousing on ebay IF you can be 100% sure you're getting a used or new OEM Toyota bellhousing and not a cheap and low quality knockoff. The problem I have heard with knockoff 1JZ bellhousings in the past is that they don't line up quite perfectly or have some minor irregularities that prevent correct mating to the trans, block, etc.

But doing a quick ebay search right now I am seeing what look like a few of the genuine article from some Japanese, Australian and United Kingdom sellers. Their prices are only a little lower than Driftmotion's and their shipping to your door varies. From DM you have to factor in additional shipping cost as well. Just see how much difference in price you'll be able to save with one vs the other.

Amayama looks like they'd get one to you for the same price as DM offers one for before shipping. We're not talking a huge difference in price here no matter where you get one of these bellhousings (Toyota Japan P/N 31111-14111) from.

I believe I got mine from DM years ago but I don't remember what the price was then.

Don't forget the OEM side inspection plates either. I recommend getting those repainted with some high quality black paint for long term protection.

Crevasse

Yeah I saw the Amayama price is similar to Driftmotion they estimate an August delivery. I’m not afraid to drop money on the right parts, already purchased the Driftmotion one Are those bellhousing covers dust cover things interchangeable between all the R series bellhousings or is each one unique?

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Unfortunately the side inspection/service covers for the R154 bellhousing only fit the R154.

The LH side cover with gasket is: 31101-14010
THe RH side cover with gasket is: 31102-14010
The LH and RH side gaskets themselves are now discontinued but you can go without them or maybe Driftmotion has an aftermarket gasket available now.

There are two bolts for each side and they are: 90080-11228. Order x4 of them.