IsraelRX

This is from a rescent article in Busineesweek:

The Phaeton is VW's answer to M-B's S-Class, as with the Audi A8 its an AWD, and comes with the following engines:
4.2 V8 with 335hp
6.0 W12 (2 V6s) with 420hp





*Do you agree with this statement?

*Does VW have the same image as Lexus?

*How would you rate the following, image wise. Jaguar, Audi, BMW, MB, Infinty, Acura, Lexus, VW, Lincoln, Cadillac, Saab, Volvo.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

*Do you agree with this statement? It would be helpful to post a little background info on the Phaeton as well. I (and I assume other forum members) have no idea what it is?

*Does VW have the same image as Lexus? No way

*How would you rate the following, image wise.

My ranking, based purely on my thoughts of 'image':

MB,
BMW,
Lexus,
Jaguar,
Infinty,
Audi,
Acura,
Cadillac,
Lincoln,
Volvo.
Saab,
VW,

XeroK00L

I agree with you for the most part, Dave! VW is definitely nowhere near the image of Lexus, though perhaps a notch above Toyota (again, based on pure image).
But I'd personally put Audi above Jaguar and Infiniti (which ends with an "i" and includes an "i" in the middle).
The rest I'm totally in line with you.

lexusk8

I agree with Audi being placed above Jaguar and Infiniti on the "image" list. Anyone can recognize an Audi from miles away (i.e. front and rear impose the universal Audi "look") Same with MB and BMW.

On a side note, the rear shot of the VW Phaeton looks like that from the new A8, but I kinda like the "debadged" look

J.P.

dave's list is right on

LexFather

What Dave said, except to me, Audi is ahead of Jaguar cause of the ridiculous X-type. Infiniti is behind both.

In IMAGE CONCIOUS America, hell now a 70k VW won't sell. Besides, it's not like it's BETTER than the S, 7, LS, XJ-8, A-8. It's a good competitor, but not better.

J.P.

Around here Jag has more prestige, but Audi is climbing fast, not sure they will ever pass Jag though.

Jag has always had end high luxury and sports car that Americans seem to like, where I didn’t really see Audi hitting the scene until the late 90’s, I think when the new A6 came out in 98’, things started to change for Audi

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

I struggled with the placement of Jaguar and Audi in my list, and I guess the conversations here prove I'm not the only one . Here's my reasoning on those two:

Jag of late has some issues now and in the past few years, and the relationship with Ford doesn't help. BUT there is a distinct heritage and greatness in some of the early cars that I had to acknowledge. They also are making strides towards some impressive machinery in the HP wars, even if they do underperform vs rating. Quality has never been their strong suit, but there is something in a 60's XKE that moves me. Some of the new models do too.

Audi also has some great heritage, but also has a strong link with VW. I also am strongly prejudiced by the early 80's Audi 4000, 5000 and other junk models. I had friends and neighbors with those cars that rusted in a year (bought new), broke down weekly, uncontrollable acceleration, etc... all that pushes Audi's image down in my mind. Yes they have some nice cars now. Yes I like the S4, S6, A8, S8, etc. They have done wonders with the quattro and turbo. But I also don't think Audi is visually distinct enough from the VW models (A4 and A6 trim).

LexFather

Oooooooh, I smell a damn good discussion coming.

I guess being younger, I remember Jaguar as up there with Mercedes Benz with prestige. They did not sell cheap cars and were hard to see and find. Seeing Jagaur not only get bought by Ford (I'd rather own a Toyota made Lexus than a Ford made Jaguar all things being equal) but seeing them go DOWNMARKET with not really the S-type, but the X-type, I lost hella respect for the brand. I am aware of their heritage but I dunno, they lost it to me.

Audi, yeah their 80s cars were blah, 60 minutes gave it to em ****but I feel they turned it around with the last A4, then the new A6, I always loved the A8, the TT set an interior trend. Then the S and RS models really are something. Yeah they all look alike but I think their interiors and product line is now above Jaguar (hell Jaguar handed it to em).

Infiniti, they are new and their failures (G20, J30, M20, QX4, I30. Q45) are too fresh in my mind to be overlooked by their new products which are good competition but outside the G35 not class winners.

My reasoning. So maybe older people still regard Jaguar over Audi. Hmmmm,

Some info on VW/AUDI, Before Fernidad Pierch left (the CEO responsible for their turnaround) he WANTED VW to battle Benz and Audi to battle BMW. So their product lines will slowly lean to more luxury (VW) and mroe sport (Audi) thus their RS lines recently. Fernidad blasted Audi for their bland designs, thus the Navoli concpet car and the angled headlights on the A3 and larger grills on the bottom. VW though, even in Europe, the prestige is not there to battle Benz let alone here in America. But that is what he wanted.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Hey now, the XKE came out before I was even born The one below (for example) was built in 1965 and I was built in 1966. I guess I'd say I'm just mature enough to appreciate the heritage of the older machinery a little more than some young whippersnappers.

The only two Jags I like at all today are the XJR and XKR - and there are far more Audi models that I would buy first over either of these. BUT the question was about image, and IMO as a brand Jaguar still has more panache than Audi. In my head I see:



- VS -



Yes I know there are lots of other classic Audi's that look better and Jags that look worse, but this is stuck in my head.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled VW thread.

LexFather

hey dang it! Dang, that Audi blows. Not sure how old Jpa is? I know u.

gsintensive

My close friend and I had the experience to own a few VW vehicles (my sister's Turbo Beetle, his 45k touareg) let me tell you it was the worst experience ever, let's leave my horrible "25k" beetle for now. You think VW would enhance their service/QA by a whole lot in selling a 40k+ luxury SUV, wrong, the Touareg has spent more time in service than on the road. Ignition failure, Electrical problems, and steering lock, my friend is planning to trade it in for GX470 now, enough said.

VW vehicles may look pretty, perform decent on paper, but to own it yourself is a totally different story. I would never buy another VW in my life. period.

jet864

I don't see in any way, for a long time, how VW will catch up with Lexus because of this one little fact.....one car model does NOT and NEVER will make a car company. Just because the phaeton is cool and has a W12 does not mean VW is a respectable high end luxury car company.

James

gs400998

VW is not for me. My friend's has a newer VW GTI and it has been the shop numerous times. Reliability is still #1 on my list. A lot of the consumers are buying Lexus instead of other luxury brands because its reliability.

LexFather

Clearly consumers feel the same way. Lexus may not win any comparos for the sportiest car but they are among the most luxurious and have gathered RESPECT worldwide.