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Sure no one outright said it was a bad product but is that necessary to say? Anybody reading this thread without the ability to make their own judgements would think this is a bad product, when in fact it is not.
We're not here to market products for Lexus. I posted my thoughts on having seen and experienced the vehicle myself, and I stand by what I said as being accurate. Its going to be a reliable vehicle for sure and it has decent space, but I think it looks and feels very cheap and its not worth what they are asking for it, and that Lexus can do much better. Much better vehicles out there for the money, I know I have driven everything remotely comparable multiple times since I am a consumer in this segment. My Pacifica feels considerably more premium.
How can you describe the TX as mediocre and then use not bad?
Medoicre doesn't mean bad...it means mediocre. Definition:
of only moderate quality; not very good.
I think that describes it well.
They've tried to price themselves at the higher tiers and no one bought their cars.
This isn't true with the right product. For instance the LX is solidly over $100k with options and they sell great. Adjusted for inflation they had wide success at price points which today are over $90k.
This is still a first generation product and Lexus usually likes to dip their toes in first to test the water. Lets see what gen 2 will bring or even during its mid life update. If they see that buyers are willing to shell out for the Max and 550h+ models, you can bet they will be more than willing to attack that level. They know exactly what they are doing and expected some of these feedbacks. You dont become the richest automaker in the world by having dumb people working for you.
I waited 5+ years for this vehicle, I'm tired of waiting lol. I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Again, being the richest automaker in the world isn't the point, as a luxury enthusiast consumer I want more out of a car than just seeing the same car at every red light. If I wanted that I would buy Toyotas.
Yea that Lexus is Lexus, not a Toyota marketing ploy didnt work. This thing called the internet ruined it for them. If they were serious about it, the GA-L would have been more widely used instead of just 3 vehicles and one of them is a TOYOTA (that hydrogen sedan).
Disagree, it worked for a long time. Lexus was a legitimate competitor for the German luxury brands for 2 decades or so. It stopped working when they decided not to put that much effort into it, and just become Acura.
I also don't think anyone cares at all about the Mirai or it's implications on Lexus branding. Most people don't even know it exists.
Medoicre doesn't mean bad...it means mediocre. Definition:
I think that describes it well.
This isn't true with the right product. For instance the LX is solidly over $100k with options and they sell great. Adjusted for inflation they had wide success at price points which today are over $90k.
I waited 5+ years for this vehicle, I'm tired of waiting lol. I'll just spend my money elsewhere. Again, being the richest automaker in the world isn't the point, as a luxury enthusiast consumer I want more out of a car than just seeing the same car at every red light. If I wanted that I would buy Toyotas.
The LX sells like 500 to 600 units a month. You call that selling great? And the LX is not solidly over $100k and starts around $87k or so. The X7, GLS and Land Rovers outsells it in multiples. If I recall, the LX was trashed just like the TX as well and if I cared enough I could find plenty of posts on it.
You can wait until you are 6ft under. Move on if you want the GLS to go along with your S class. Dont be frustrated because you chose to wait. Lexus will not put their best feet forward to play in the $100k+ arena. They will play to their strengths in the $50 to $80k level.
The LX sells like 500 to 600 units a month. You call that selling great? And the LX is not solidly over $100k and starts around $87k or so. The X7, GLS and Land Rovers outsells it in multiples. If I recall, the LX was trashed just like the TX as well and if I cared enough I could find plenty of posts on it.
Negative lol. Try $94k before destination:
When something sells at MSRP or with a markup it sells great. I was at a Lexus dealer the other day and every LX they had was over $100k, it all depends on how they are optioned. I have plenty of issues with the LX but the LX has a following and it has a uniqueness about it, there is a reason somebody would want it.
You can wait until you are 6ft under. Move on if you want the GLS to go along with your S class. Dont be frustrated because you chose to wait. Lexus will not put their best feet forward to play in the $100k+ arena. They will play to their strengths in the $50 to $80k level.
I have moved on as has everybody else who was a Lexus fan and appreciated their higher end vehicles. Look around, how many of us oldtime members here still are Lexus customers? Not many, and those that are still have older cars. Go to BMW, Audi and MB forums, TONS of previous Lexus customers there. How many former customers of those brands are here? Not many. Back in the glory days the LS, GS, SC and IS forums were full of ex-German car owners.
Like I said, Toyota + is what they are now, like Acura. If that excites you thats great but it doesn't excite me and I don't think its unreasonable for enthusiasts of the brand like me to be frustrated and to want to see them return to their former glory. I Lexus is a shell of what they once were and its really a shame.
Disagree, it worked for a long time. Lexus was a legitimate competitor for the German luxury brands for 2 decades or so. It stopped working when they decided not to put that much effort into it, and just become Acura.
I also don't think anyone cares at all about the Mirai or it's implications on Lexus branding. Most people don't even know it exists.
Its still working, just that no one bought their Lexus is not Toyota marketing non-sense. I think the only non-Toyota derived cars are the LC and LS. They sold over 320k units last year. People still bought their outdated, mediocre, not bad cars in droves.
Its still working, just that no one bought their Lexus is not Toyota marketing non-sense. I think the only non-Toyota derived cars are the LC and LS. They sold over 320k units last year. People still bought their outdated, mediocre, not bad cars in droves.
People absolutely bought this "nonsense" lol, Lexus had big capture rates from the Germans and changed the face of the luxury landscape. Current models the IS is not derived from a Toyota either. Before none of their models were other than the ES.
Lexus absolutely can sell cars that compete with the Germans.
When something sells at MSRP or with a markup it sells great. I was at a Lexus dealer the other day and every LX they had was over $100k, it all depends on how they are optioned. I have plenty of issues with the LX but the LX has a following and it has a uniqueness about it, there is a reason somebody would want it.
I have moved on as has everybody else who was a Lexus fan and appreciated their higher end vehicles. Look around, how many of us oldtime members here still are Lexus customers? Not many, and those that are still have older cars. Go to BMW, Audi and MB forums, TONS of previous Lexus customers there. How many former customers of those brands are here? Not many. Back in the glory days the LS, GS, SC and IS forums were full of ex-German car owners.
Like I said, Toyota + is what they are now, like Acura. If that excites you thats great but it doesn't excite me and I don't think its unreasonable for enthusiasts of the brand like me to be frustrated and to want to see them return to their former glory. I Lexus is a shell of what they once were and its really a shame.
Yep, as someone who only relatively recently joined the lux car world (started with trucks) at my forum join date with an LS430 I quickly discovered that past the LS460 the brand was practically dead to me.
A enthusiastic new owner who picked a brand to try due to stellar reputation shouldn't look at the car he should aspire to own as the current top of the line (LS500) and think "meh, I don't want a lowly V6"
The reliability is also largely carryover hype from the early 2000s when Lexus really WAS that good and the Germans sucked. Now it's the opposite and post 2010 I see less issue with the Germans from a design standpoint. The issue I have with Lexus is that the maintenance/care you put in doesn't matter, it will pattern failure anyway like SO MANY have seen with there LS460s on here.
If I'm going to have to fix a car anyway why not just get the better one to drive with more features and superior everything? I won't buy new because I've been there and eaten the deprecation already, rather buy used and use the difference in price to make the car perfect for way less overall......and that's makes Lexus worse since they are overpriced used. You spend more for less car and it's still painfully expensive to have work done on any of the high end cars they sell.
I'm not interested in mid/low tier stuff so before you say "most of their stuff is reliable" I don't care, I care about high end. They don't do well there because of idiotic decisions like canceling their TTV8, if they never did that I would have had a new LSF in my signature not two A8s and a 460. The real problem now though is due to not offering me anything, myself and MANY others on this forum alone got a taste of what the Germans have to offer and after living with them we realized they are actually more reliable and better to live with at the high end.
Lexus guys are also so easy to convert to Audi, takes me one drive and they trade out in under a month. One single pull and they are astounded at how slow their "performance" IS350 or GS350 is and how behind their are in suspension. It's just a matter of getting them past the "reliability" blinders, it's much easier once they experience how much better the Germans drive.....and then when you show them that they can buy an S6, warranty, new rims, and have $3500 extra for the price of a used IS350 it's over.
This TX is just all those issues and reality to the max. The Q7 (not SQ7) with a 3.0 and stage one full warranty matching tune utterly outclasses this. The X7 totally outclasses. GLS totally outclasses, and by that I mean just completely better and for the same price. If you never keep past 10 years anyway who cares at all about reliability? I see so many people go on and on about "how reliable my Toyota/Lexus/Honda has been" and they only keep cars for like 36-50k miles. It's comedy
I think the LC is still an incredible car, I also think the LX has a selling proposition and is a unique offering, as well as the GX. Sitting in the LX, I could see myself driving that...
I would have no issue with transverse Toyota derived models if they also made some compelling proper premium vehicles like they used to. The good thing about those models selling so well SHOULD be that they can invest in lower volume proper high end cars like the LC.
Like with MB, I can excuse the GLA and GLB and that stuff, because it lets them offer really great cars at lower volume for people like us.
People absolutely bought this "nonsense" lol, Lexus had big capture rates from the Germans and changed the face of the luxury landscape. Current models the IS is not derived from a Toyota either. Before none of their models were other than the ES.
Lexus absolutely can sell cars that compete with the Germans.
In addition to the ES, wasn't the LX based off of the Land Cruiser, the RX based off the Highlander, and the GX based off of the 4Runner/Prado? I think the original GS was the same as the Aristo and later the Crown (though it's a bit of a different situation)? I understand the frustrations with upper models, but having models closely tied in with a corresponding Toyota model is definitely not a recent development.
I think the LC is still an incredible car, I also think the LX has a selling proposition and is a unique offering, as well as the GX. Sitting in the LX, I could see myself driving that...
I would have no issue with transverse Toyota derived models if they also made some compelling proper premium vehicles like they used to. The good thing about those models selling so well SHOULD be that they can invest in lower volume proper high end cars like the LC.
Like with MB, I can excuse the GLA and GLB and that stuff, because it lets them offer really great cars at lower volume for people like us.
The LC/LX/LS* are all great, I have no real issue with the LS even other than lack of serious engine option.
As you know I agree on all points you made. I also think that the TX is just insulting at the price they are asking for what it is. Have you driven one yet btw? If not go drive a grand highlander first with earmuffs on and it's the same.
In addition to the ES, wasn't the LX based off of the Land Cruiser, the RX based off the Highlander, and the GX based off of the 4Runner/Prado? I think the original GS was the same as the Aristo and later the Crown (though it's a bit of a different situation)? I understand the frustrations with upper models, but having models closely tied in with a corresponding Toyota model is definitely not a recent development.
I'm talking about at the very beginning, before the LX, RX etc were even a thing. Like I said I have no issue with the models they have if they also offered compelling unique to Lexus options at the higher end,
I also have no issue with Toyota using platforms that are proper premium layout from overseas as Lexus models here (such as the Aristo or Altezza). What I have an issue with is them offering nothing but transverse/FWD Toyota clones.
As you know I agree on all points you made. I also think that the TX is just insulting at the price they are asking for what it is. Have you driven one yet btw? If not go drive a grand highlander first with earmuffs on and it's the same.
I did drive it, its fine...but it feels like every other unibody FWD 3 row crossover...no better than a Palisade or Telluride
In addition to the ES, wasn't the LX based off of the Land Cruiser, the RX based off the Highlander, and the GX based off of the 4Runner/Prado? I think the original GS was the same as the Aristo and later the Crown (though it's a bit of a different situation)? I understand the frustrations with upper models, but having models closely tied in with a corresponding Toyota model is definitely not a recent development.
RX came first, it's what lead to the highlander over here since they wanted to sell a cheap version.
LX is a Gucci LC yes but the LC is special for many reasons.
GX offers V8 and other options impossible on a 4Runner as well as being actually nice inside and not a hollow plastic box.
I would never own a highlander/4Runner but have and would own an RX/GX/LX because they put enough work into making them stand apart it's worth it and the base cars were already quite good. Why buy an LC when the LX is on offer is how I look at it, I want the best not a stripped version.
The RX is similarly just a great basic driving SUV, why buy a new penalty box CUV when I could have an RX a few years old for less? It's not like the first owners abused it and they last long so I'll let some other person take the 50% loss. The new ones are turbo, people can and will screw them up.
I'm talking about at the very beginning, before the LX, RX etc were even a thing. Like I said I have no issue with the models they have if they also offered compelling unique to Lexus options at the higher end,
I also have no issue with Toyota using platforms that are proper premium layout from overseas as Lexus models here (such as the Aristo or Altezza). What I have an issue with is them offering nothing but transverse/FWD Toyota clones.
01-12-24, 11:49 AM
