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I don't quite understand. My SL and LS430 don't break and just need fuel and oil, lol.. Why would I give them up?
Damn, that's a lot of money.
Why did you have to replace LS430 engine? I get it about the passion with German cars but that still doesn't discount how fabulous an LS430 is, comfort and drivability wise.
Idiots before me didn't change oil, I bought it slugged and badly contaminated/varnished but it still gave me 20k of service
Your LS and SL will need stuff and have already cost you a good bit but you are totally happy with giving them what they ask for because they are so good to drive. My question was posited to reflect that when a car is so much better than other options you stop caring about stuff like MPG and expensive parts.
What is an "artificial want"? Am I supposed to not want anything out of a vehicle purchase? You continue to ignore that I recently completed a exhaustive search for a 3 row crossover or minivan preferably under $70,000...which describes the TX...I am a consumer for this vehicle. I was willing to pay for a GLS if my wife liked that and it got her out of a minivan, but I really didn't want to buy anything over $70,000. I repeatedly drove and considered all the TXs competitors, and if I liked the TX styling I would have waited to consider it as well. IMO the TX is the weakest vehicle in the segment when it comes to a quality and luxury standpoint. You keep trying to say that my opinion is unreasonable but I don't see how that makes any sense. QX60, MDX are direct competitors and they have much much nicer interiors and are more luxurious, even my Pacifica feels more luxurious.
Who is trashing the product? I am giving my opinion which is just as valid as yours or anybody else's. This is a discussion forum, and we don't only allow positive opinions of vehicles here. If you would stop trying to discredit me and my opinion I would stop harping on it.
Yes, it would mean a brand new model. Thats my point, I want to see new models from Lexus that compete with the Germans at least in their mainstream models. I guarantee people would buy it, you said yourself they only sell 600 LXs a month, a 3 row GA-L platform 3 row crossover with the 3.5L TTV6 I bet would sell twice as many units and it would do a lot for the Lexus brand.
I would not scream bloody murder about it no longer being BOF because thats not the sort of vehicle I want. The LX as it is doesn't really make sense for the American market which is why it doesn't sell that many units, its too small and too trucky.
Thats the issue...when the 2IS came out and even the 3IS it was very competitive. but its not any longer because Lexus hasn't focused on it.
Yes, Lexus is in a severe predicament.
Since former President Akio's takeover in 2009, he has made models sportier, then back-tracked to softer luxury suspension.
He has also literally axed the RWD-based sedans.
Akio has handed the reigns over to Koji Sato - who has very much followed on the same path.
Toyota Motor Corp is focused on money, rather than focused on quality products with RWD-based GA-L platform.
IMO, NX/RX/TX should all be GA-L based just like old IS/GS/LS used the Toyota N Platform.
Benz use MRA platform.
BMW uses OKL platform.
IMO, the FWD-based GA-K platform should only be used by RAV4, Highlander and Grand Highlander.
IMO, FWD-based GA-K should not be used by NX/RX/TX.
So why Akio's focus on money rather than quality?
Perhaps TMC believes that the transition to EV's will be very costly???
I think the best hope for Lexus is that the switch to EV platforms would help them create some more compelling products that do compete with EV platforms from competitors...
I think the best hope for Lexus is that the switch to EV platforms would help them create some more compelling products that do compete with EV platforms from competitors...
Even TMC's current e-TNGA platform has so far only spawned FWD-based bZ and RZ with cheap simple single lower arm MacPherson strut front suspension.
e-TNGA was supposed to be RWD-able.
I don't mind Toyota bZ being FWD-based, but IMO Lexus RZ should be RWD-based with a bigger battery pack than Toyota bZ.
Can only hope something good comes out of their rumored forthcoming 2025 EV Lexus compact sedan...
You may have walked in WANTING a GLS and X7 competitor.
good call.
Whoever the buyer is, needs to walk in there unbiased and untainted by the internet and their silly wants.
ha... no one is unbiased and untainted.
Originally Posted by situman
They can compete with the Germans, but not at every price point.
GS = Aristo
IS = Altezza
UX = Corolla based
RX = Highlander
NX = RAV4
LX = Land Cruiser
GX = Prado
LBX - Yaris Cross
LC500...Old SC was the Celsior or something. Would you call the LC the successor to the SC?
LS = Crown or something
you were close! i think the SC was originally called a "soarer" in japan. the ls was the celsior in japan i think.
the lc500 was all new for lexus and by the time that came around, lexus was operating in japan.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
If Lexus came out with a car that had the space and ride characteristics of the S Class and a smooth V8, I would absolutely go back to Lexus.
as you know, toyota/lexus doesn't have a TT v8 first off so that's not happening. and pretty soon, mercedes won't have a v8 s-class either.
Wasn't close to the GS but it was a very high quality vehicle compared to other vehicles it competed with, and it launched an entire segment of cars.
it competed but launched an entire segment are rather contradictory. mercedes brought out the ML with a drastic attempt to cost reduce and it showed and they paid a price.
I just did it, and like I said take the Lexus badge off the TX and you wouldn't know it was a Lexus.
i think it's a classic case of confirmation bias, but it's all subjective anyway. yes, the tx is no gls/x7. but it's a perfect up-sell from the rx. it will do well. i personally like the 'dull' interior.
A high spec Palisade or Telluride is nicer inside than the TX, and WAY better than the GH.
i've no doubt a tx is quieter than a palisade or telluride and probably rides nicer too. and unlike those 2 it has multiple power train choices. they're all great vehicles though!
If you're going to extole the virtues of Lexus, at least understand the brand, your description of the models shows you don't, which is likely why you don't understand our frustration.
...
You think Lexus has always been this way but thats because you don't know as much about the brand as you think you do.
and you say i'm rude, haha
That would be one of the vehicles that frustrates me yes.
re: ux, well, it competes against another of your faves, the mercedes gla.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
I am completely capable of assessing a vehicle based on where it is,
as this thread demonstrate though, none of us are very objective.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
... I have waited for Lexus to produce this vehicle for years...I think I'm allowed to have an opinion about it.
absolutely.
Originally Posted by BrettJacks
I'll never understand the mentality of "The automaker is always right, you have to like it or move on."
who has stated that? obviously all automakers make blunders.
Steve has walked the walk, he's owned a lot of Lexuses and he moved on to owning a different brand when Lexus stopped making what he wants.
many have moved on. i came back for now , but it's not only about what the automaker does, the consumer's needs/wants can change too. steve certainly doesn't need an s-class for work but he wants it, has worked hard for it, and deserves it!
Originally Posted by SW17LS
what I want hasn't changed...if they had made an LS that still fit in with what the LS always was I would never have gotten the S Class.
we can think our wants don't change but they do. we change. the world around us changes. circumstances change. nothing is the same from moment to moment.
What they really should have done is made the LX more of a competitor to the GLS/X7 type of vehicle on the GA-L platform.
the lx platform being shared with the land cruiser is enormously popular (and profitable) worldwide for use in rough terrain/environments. no way lexus should have made the lx a gls/x7 competitor for u.s. parents taking kids to school.
It would have had much broader appeal than what it is now.
it wouldn't be an lx then.
Originally Posted by Striker223
The IS never stood against the 3-series, the 3 has the M340i, M3, M3CS, wagons, AWD earlier, way more features, way better engines for performance, better brakes all around, much better suspension and support for modifications.
Against the cheap entry level 3 series sure, never at the top end though. The ISF was and is the height of the IS for performance and it's smacked down by a 340i with ease.
Oh the IS is more reliable naturally, I would never own a BMW unless I buy it new and had $15k laying around for when it starts breaking post warranty since I would be an idiot an buy a V8 and not a B58
winning post... 100% agree. and that's not knocking the IS at all. great car!
We all love Lexus and want to see Lexus succeed. They are not succeeding right now. They are failing.
We all remember Lexus from their glory days. I would say from 1989-circa 2015. We all remember those sophisticated and prestigious soundung Lexus commercials with Mr. Sloyan’s voice, they showed off the engineering of the cars. Lexus commercials now are terrible and cringey. Even during the L- Finnesse time period (2005-2012) where there were some quality struggles. The styling and powertrain of the vehicles were still excellent. My GS 350 can go 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. That was V8 territory back then. and It does NOT sound like a vacuum cleaner it is a very smooth refined engine.
This new Lexus TX is not a very unimpressive vehicle. I think the exterior looks attractive but the interior is very dull. No tan or ivory options? Only Gray and Black? No woodgrain? Seriously? This is supposed to be a luxury SUV. Luxury cars are supposed to have warm, decadent interiors, not dull. Lexus used be known for their fine woodgrain. Oh, and the crappy four-cylinder engines don’t help matters.
I agree with everything SW17LS and peteharvey has said. Thank you! I hope Lexus can redeem themselves in the age of electrification. But they’re already off to a bad start. They’ve already announced that there’s going to be a cheaper FWD version of the RZ coming out soon. Like why?
Except that I was not comparing the vehicle to a GLS, I have said over and over what I have compared it to, continuing to say that I am comparing it to the GLS doesn't make it so. I wanted it to be as nice as an Infiniti QX60 and it’s not.
I didn't buy a GLS, I bought a Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle Hybrid. My desire for Lexus to make a GLS competitor is outside of the TX. The GLS was way outside my price range for this vehicle.
you were close! i think the SC was originally called a "soarer" in japan. the ls was the celsior in japan i think.
Not close lol
as you know, toyota/lexus doesn't have a TT v8 first off so that's not happening. and pretty soon, mercedes won't have a v8 s-class either.
I didnt say TTV8, I said V8. I also would go back to Lexus for the same sort of vehicle that is an EV. MB will have a V8 in the S Class until such time as they go EV with the S Class. As you know I am absolutely open to an EV. What I don't want is a big flagship sedan with a V6 or I6.
it competed but launched an entire segment are rather contradictory. mercedes brought out the ML with a drastic attempt to cost reduce and it showed and they paid a price.
Of course the RX had competitors even if they weren't exactly the same. People came to the new RX from Explorers and 4 Runners etc.
I think it's a classic case of confirmation bias, but it's all subjective anyway. yes, the tx is no gls/x7. but it's a perfect up-sell from the rx. it will do well. i personally like the 'dull' interior.
How would my negative reaction to a vehicle that I have wanted from Lexus for years be a confirmation bias? This is a vehicle I very much wanted to like, not dislike. You need to just accept my opinion of the vehicle and stop trying to discredit it.
Its not the design of the interior, its the quality and luxuriousness of the interior, materials, trim, etc. The Design is fine. Have you seen the vehicle in person, or all of the competitors?
i've no doubt a tx is quieter than a palisade or telluride and probably rides nicer too. and unlike those 2 it has multiple power train choices. they're all great vehicles though!
Have you driven them? If not I don't see how you can tell me I'm wrong lol. It does not ride better and is not quieter than a Palisade or Telluride, its very similar. All around 63 dB at 70 MPH, which is about the same as my Pacifica (I measure remember?). It feels very similar, the ride and drive I don't have an issue with. My issue is that the car feels and looks cheap.
re: ux, well, it competes against another of your faves, the mercedes gla.
Its actually way nicer than a Mercedes GLA. Its considerably smaller though. I've driven both of them too. The UX is a nice little vehicle, and I have said before I have no issue with that if they would also provide some models I would like.
who has stated that? obviously all automakers make blunders.
situman, repeatedly.
many have moved on. i came back for now , but it's not only about what the automaker does, the consumer's needs/wants can change too. steve certainly doesn't need an s-class for work but he wants it, has worked hard for it, and deserves it!
we can think our wants don't change but they do. we change. the world around us changes. circumstances change. nothing is the same from moment to moment.
I think its best to respect what people say their wants and needs are and not try and tell them they are wrong about them. I am informing you that my wants and needs have not changed, its not up for debate as you don't know me and know very little about me. I want and have driven for the past 9 years large, comfortable RWD flagship luxury sedans. What I want out of a car has not changed, what Lexus offered has changed.
the lx platform being shared with the land cruiser is enormously popular (and profitable) worldwide for use in rough terrain/environments. no way lexus should have made the lx a gls/x7 competitor for u.s. parents taking kids to school.
But its not a vehicle that competes well in the US, as is evidenced by its niche sales. Lexus leaves a lot of sales and prestige on the table by not offering a vehicle in those industry defining segments in North America. If MB can develop and market and sell a GLE and GLS and BMW can do the same with the X5 and X7, Lexus can do that too.
but there's more to the market than just the u.s. the lx/lc does extremely well in the middle east, australia, africa among others.
Nobody is saying that they shouldn’t sell the LC/LX in other markets, they should just also design vehicles made for our market as their competitors do.
lexus is a small division of toyota. mb and bmw have to be more 'full line' because that's all they have.
They don’t “have to be” anything. That doesn’t mean that as a luxury brand they aren’t served by increasing their prestige by competing in high value segments. This is the company that designed the LFA for gods sake. Can you imagine the Lexus of today designing a car like the LFA?
They suffer today from a scarcity mindset and it has stopped all innovation and leadership. They aren’t a leader in the industry any longer in any way, and that’s a shame.
We all love Lexus and want to see Lexus succeed. They are not succeeding right now. They are failing.
We all remember Lexus from their glory days. I would say from 1989-circa 2015. We all remember those sophisticated and prestigious soundung Lexus commercials with Mr. Sloyan’s voice, they showed off the engineering of the cars. Lexus commercials now are terrible and cringey. Even during the L- Finnesse time period (2005-2012) where there were some quality struggles. The styling and powertrain of the vehicles were still excellent. My GS 350 can go 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. That was V8 territory back then. and It does NOT sound like a vacuum cleaner it is a very smooth refined engine.
y?
You should have driven/owned a V8 GS. Night and day difference between Lexus V8 and V6 feel. Night and day.
Toyota 3.5 V6 is a great engine that checks all the boxes, but it's far from the smoothest V6 I've owned. And the sound is meh, vacuumy. However for sure, it's the most potent V6 I ever owned.
Honda made the smoothest and best sounding V6 though, the J-Series VTEC I had in my 6 speed TL was incredible, but slower than the IS350. Like I said, I don't care about differences on paper, it's the feel and sound and just pleasure of getting there.
Nobody is saying that they shouldn’t sell the LC/LX in other markets, they should just also design vehicles made for our market as their competitors do.
even though you don't like the tx, i predict it will do well.
They don’t “have to be” anything.
actually they do. porsche learned this too. if you don't have sufficient volume and sharing parts across the line-up, the cars just cost insane amounts fo build and you then have to be a rolls royce or other niche brand. bmw and mercedes have WAY more models than they have in the past... to survive.
lexus doesn't have this issue. it's always marched to its own drummers, delighting, infuriating, and confusing fans and critics alike.
This is the company that designed the LFA for gods sake. Can you imagine the Lexus of today designing a car like the LFA?
i've written here many times that i think the LFA was a bizarre mistake. certainly an amazing demonstration of the company's engineering and design capabilities, but they made so few at such a high price - have you ever seen one on the road? ultimately i don't think it did anything for lexus. now it's just a collector's item.
They suffer today from a scarcity mindset and it has stopped all innovation and leadership. They aren’t a leader in the industry any longer in any way, and that’s a shame.
you want them to compete head to head with german brands, but that just isn't lexus' thing. they go for defensible niches. for example, while not your (or my) thing today, the ES essentially has no competition and i've no doubt it's very profitable for lexus. the lx, gx, lc500 are other examples of unique offerings with basically no competition.
Except that I was not comparing the vehicle to a GLS, I have said over and over what I have compared it to, continuing to say that I am comparing it to the GLS doesn't make it so. I wanted it to be as nice as an Infiniti QX60 and it’s not.
I didn't buy a GLS, I bought a Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle Hybrid. My desire for Lexus to make a GLS competitor is outside of the TX. The GLS was way outside my price range for this vehicle.
Not close lol
I didnt say TTV8, I said V8. I also would go back to Lexus for the same sort of vehicle that is an EV. MB will have a V8 in the S Class until such time as they go EV with the S Class. As you know I am absolutely open to an EV. What I don't want is a big flagship sedan with a V6 or I6.
Of course the RX had competitors even if they weren't exactly the same. People came to the new RX from Explorers and 4 Runners etc.
How would my negative reaction to a vehicle that I have wanted from Lexus for years be a confirmation bias? This is a vehicle I very much wanted to like, not dislike. You need to just accept my opinion of the vehicle and stop trying to discredit it.
Its not the design of the interior, its the quality and luxuriousness of the interior, materials, trim, etc. The Design is fine. Have you seen the vehicle in person, or all of the competitors?
Have you driven them? If not I don't see how you can tell me I'm wrong lol. It does not ride better and is not quieter than a Palisade or Telluride, its very similar. All around 63 dB at 70 MPH, which is about the same as my Pacifica (I measure remember?). It feels very similar, the ride and drive I don't have an issue with. My issue is that the car feels and looks cheap.
Its actually way nicer than a Mercedes GLA. Its considerably smaller though. I've driven both of them too. The UX is a nice little vehicle, and I have said before I have no issue with that if they would also provide some models I would like.
situman, repeatedly.
I think its best to respect what people say their wants and needs are and not try and tell them they are wrong about them. I am informing you that my wants and needs have not changed, its not up for debate as you don't know me and know very little about me. I want and have driven for the past 9 years large, comfortable RWD flagship luxury sedans. What I want out of a car has not changed, what Lexus offered has changed.
But its not a vehicle that competes well in the US, as is evidenced by its niche sales. Lexus leaves a lot of sales and prestige on the table by not offering a vehicle in those industry defining segments in North America. If MB can develop and market and sell a GLE and GLS and BMW can do the same with the X5 and X7, Lexus can do that too.
I never said the automaker is always right. Dont put words into my mouth. They will do what they want and need to do. Either you like it or dont like it. Stay if you like, leave if u dont. They can't possibly satisfy everyone's needs and wants. Dont go trashing a perfectly good product because it doesnt meet your needs and wants.
Nobody is saying that they shouldn’t sell the LC/LX in other markets, they should just also design vehicles made for our market as their competitors do.
They don’t “have to be” anything. That doesn’t mean that as a luxury brand they aren’t served by increasing their prestige by competing in high value segments. This is the company that designed the LFA for gods sake. Can you imagine the Lexus of today designing a car like the LFA?
They suffer today from a scarcity mindset and it has stopped all innovation and leadership. They aren’t a leader in the industry any longer in any way, and that’s a shame.
You dont have to be innovative or be the first to be successful. Have you heard of the iphone? The car industry is in a transition. They are focusing on hybrids and they are king in hybrids. When the industry fully transitions into EVs, I'm willing to bet they will become the leader. Chinese EVs will saturate the market, but that's a different discussion.
01-13-24 | 03:35 PM
You continue to ignore that I recently completed a exhaustive search for a 3 row crossover or minivan preferably under $70,000...which describes the TX...I am a consumer for this vehicle. I was willing to pay for a GLS if my wife liked that and it got her out of a minivan, but I really didn't want to buy anything over $70,000. I repeatedly drove and considered all the TXs competitors, and if I liked the TX styling I would have waited to consider it as well. IMO the TX is the weakest vehicle in the segment when it comes to a quality and luxury standpoint. You keep trying to say that my opinion is unreasonable but I don't see how that makes any sense. QX60, MDX are direct competitors and they have much much nicer interiors and are more luxurious, even my Pacifica feels more luxurious.
