SW17LS

She doesn't love the Pacifica, or minivans, she just loves whatever makes her very complicated life easier, and a minivan does that. She would never drive a minivan if she didn't feel like it made her life shuttling kids around easier. She'd love some zippy fun car. I think in reality for the US family a minivan or SUV just fulfill more needs than a wagon, and the market has made that determination.

Quite frankly, for an American family there is no better vehicle than a minivan. If you need to tow, then thats an issue, if you routinely travel offroad then thats an issue, but 8 out of 10 SUV/Crossover buyers who use them for family duty would be better served by a minivan. I hate it as much as the next enthusiast because they are ugly, boring to drive, not cool or fun...but from a utility standpoint its undeniable.

stasek

Wagons - "everyone" loves them, "nobody" buys them . My '18 Buick Regal TourX has been pretty much flawless since I bought it 2.5+ years ago (with 14+K miles). With my current commute, I'll hit 100K in a month+. Really hoping it'll remain problem free till at least 150K (another 2 years).

mmarshall

Your Tour-X, despite the Buick nameplate, is not a true American wagon. Like several other Buicks of that time-frame which were redone Opels, It is an almost 100% rebadged version of the European Opel Insignia wagon. Buick probably had their eyes on the mega-selling Subaru Outback when they introduced it, but it did not prove successful, and lasted only a few years. It had AWD like the Outback, but not the raised ground-clearance. It was really more of a competitor to the Lower-stance Subaru Legacy wagon.

SW17LS

None of the wagons on sale here today are "American wagons" lol, they are all from Europe because thats where they can sell wagons. So the only wagons we get, other than the Outback, are European.

mmarshall

Yes, I agree that minivans are not enthusiast vehicles by any means. But that does not mean that they are necessarily boring or ugly to drive....although I respect your view on that, as it is subjective and open to individual opinions. But, in most cases, I found later-generation FWD/AWD minivans generally comfortable and relatively pleasant to drive, although the early RWD ones from Toyota (not the later Previa), Nissan, and Mitsubishi, like the one shown below, with their short wheelbases, overhangs, and choppy rides/porpoise-bobbing to be miserable.

mmarshall

Yes, that's true...although it is interesting that Hyundai and Kia never attempted to seriously market a Korean designed wagon here either, based on a sedan. The only one I can remember (although I may have forgotten one or two) was the former Elantra wagon...long-since discontinued.

xjokerz

My favorite wagon:



Look at how boxy that thing is. Can see for days out of it too and can stuff a bunch of things in the back. To me it's nicer than any crossover on the road.

SW17LS

I find all of them ugly, the shape just isn’t attractive to me. The Pacifica is fine, the Odyssey is fine, the Carnival is probably the best looking one right now. Sienna is hideous IMO.

But they are indeed boring to drive. They are low powered, FWD, macpherson strut, geared for fuel economy so they aren’t quick or responsive, they’re just not engaging in any way to drive. Pleasant. Competent. Not “fun”.

Just got back from WV, the Pacifica is happy on a long straight road. If it starts to turn, it gets unhappy quick and on a curvy mountain road it is not confidence inspiring or enjoyable at all. In fact it becomes a chore to drive.

Now a Highlander or other similar setup crossover won’t be much better, but something like an X5/7 or a GLE/S will be much more rewarding, and something like an E Class wagon or an A6 Avant or something like that would be amazing.

Minivan is just transportation.

Tritonal

Taycan Sport/Cross Turismo looks nice... If I were to get a wagon, it'd either be the Porsche or RS6 Avant

Striker223

I would love to have a wagon....but I would want it to be diesel, AWD, with a tall roofline for space in the back and ability to safely load and carry a 7.3 Diesel engine in the back area.

That would be perfection for my daily driving usage and shop usage. But alas, we don't get the uber nice diesel options here in the states. I would go stupid for a state side Jag X-type wagon diesel! You can't even import the engines though!

mmarshall

Possibly the most hideous and awkward-looking of all the minivans were the famous GM "Dust-Busters" of the 1990s. They were like 90s-vintage Saturns....plastic-bodied, on a space-frame.





I'll agree if one's definition of "fun" is a sports-car.

Minivans use mostly Mac-Struts because they are space-efficient and provide a reasonably good combination of ride and handling. The space-efficiency factor is especially important in the Chrysler minivans with the Stow-and-Go folding-seat package.

Don't you usually just stay on Interstates with the Pacifica?......I-66, I-81, and I-64? I could understand the Pacifica getting a little unhappy on something like U.S. 250, U.S. 33, or U.S. 50 across the VA/WV mountains (particularly in Pendleton and Highland Counties) and the never-ending sharp curves and steep grades, but Interstates are generally flatter and straighter...although you occasionally do get longer grades like Sandstone Mountain.


So is my Somewhat-Vanilla Encore GX...but that doesn't mean I don't love it and enjoy driving it ....see my just-posted 30-month Owner-Update in Car Chat.

xjokerz

Hey, my grandma had one just like this. Hers was white though:



Thing had a velvet interior. Unfortunately my grandpa got into an accident in 2003 and that was that. I believe they had it for 13 years up to that point. Good van and unique design.

mmarshall

That was the Chevy Version.....the Lumina LPV. The LPV got a face-lift after the first couple of years...your Grandma had one of those, which made it look a little less-pointy and awkward up front.

As with the 1990s Saturns, I personally liked the plastic-body/space-frame idea on these minivans, which prevented rust/corrosion, dings, and dents not the body-panels. But GM, IMO, was a little questionable in choosing a Dust-Buster hand-held vacuum as the styling-model for these vehicles.

SW17LS

My S560 isn’t a sports car, but it is much, much more enjoyable and fun to drive. A GLS or X7 isn’t a sports car, but they would be too. They are made for driving enjoyment, that’s the difference.

I understand why, but put it into a corner and the limitations that setup presents are immediately apparent. That’s part of the thing about wagons, they deliver a lot of utility without a trade off on driving experience.

Yeah but we go places when we are there, and drive on a lot of mountain roads.

Way more fun to drive than my Pacifica I promise you. It’s small and zippy and meanuverable

Margate330

I like that.

Sweet ride.
If they would extend the back and square up a little, that could look even better, maybe.

Ok, I'll probably get shot for this but I didn't think these refreshed ones didn't look so bad.

Would I want it for my daily?
Hell no but it could work as a 2nd vehicle just for the utility.