Where Did They All Go, No Love for Wagons?
07-20-23, 02:45 PM
#106
Lexus Champion
07-20-23, 08:19 PM
#107
Advanced
For a long time Saab 9-5 was one a very few sensible wagons on the market - and they sold about 1 wagon for every 2 sedans.
The above mentioned Saab 9-5 had way more interior room than more than half of today's SUVs - with much flatter floor too.
Last edited by NdYAG; 07-20-23 at 08:22 PM.
07-21-23, 04:00 AM
#108
Toyota was caught suprised for a sudden demand in hybrids (for many of them there are year-long waitlists). What makes you think they can predict demand for a sensible wagon?
For a long time Saab 9-5 was one a very few sensible wagons on the market - and they sold about 1 wagon for every 2 sedans.
The above mentioned Saab 9-5 had way more interior room than more than half of today's SUVs - with much flatter floor too.
For a long time Saab 9-5 was one a very few sensible wagons on the market - and they sold about 1 wagon for every 2 sedans.
The above mentioned Saab 9-5 had way more interior room than more than half of today's SUVs - with much flatter floor too.
07-21-23, 04:14 AM
#109
Out of Warranty
07-21-23, 04:35 AM
#110
You’re not kidding, we drew a lot of attention all through the Midwest. Driving over the Rockies was pretty challenging with the 3 speed on the column and, of course, the brakes. I grew up in the city and my friend from the Cape, he wouldn’t drive the car in the cities so I drew the short straw there. It was quite a summer.
07-21-23, 06:42 AM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
BMW is bringing the next-gen M5 Wagon to the states and mentioned "rising demand" for an M Touring (granted, this is a niche market). Audi's A6 Allroad and RS 6 Avant have exceeded expectations per the recent driving reviews, and are bringing the next-gen entire A5/S5/RS 5 Avant lineup to the US, as opposed to solely A4 Allroad like currently. I definitely think the performance segment has influenced the more "normal" luxury wagons a lot. And of course, the E-Class "All-Terrain" continues with the next-generation too.
The Taycan Cross Turismo is seemingly (at least from what I see) quite successful with affluent dads, I see a lot of them here in LA.
And of course, Lexus has been toying with the idea of a BEV IS Wagon, per the concept reveals they did.. of course whether they actually make one or not is still TBD.
The Taycan Cross Turismo is seemingly (at least from what I see) quite successful with affluent dads, I see a lot of them here in LA.
And of course, Lexus has been toying with the idea of a BEV IS Wagon, per the concept reveals they did.. of course whether they actually make one or not is still TBD.
In reality there is no reason for them. A crossover is basically just a tall wagon on a car platform. Only people like us who are enthusiasts get the appeal of a wagon.
Toyota was caught suprised for a sudden demand in hybrids (for many of them there are year-long waitlists). What makes you think they can predict demand for a sensible wagon?
For a long time Saab 9-5 was one a very few sensible wagons on the market - and they sold about 1 wagon for every 2 sedans.
The above mentioned Saab 9-5 had way more interior room than more than half of today's SUVs - with much flatter floor too.
For a long time Saab 9-5 was one a very few sensible wagons on the market - and they sold about 1 wagon for every 2 sedans.
The above mentioned Saab 9-5 had way more interior room than more than half of today's SUVs - with much flatter floor too.
Year long waitlists are not the case in the US, and Toyota has shown they want to limit demand to create waitlists and buzz. Look at the new Sequoia and the LX. those are vehicles they can easily build enough of to meet the tepid demand and they choose not to.
07-22-23, 07:50 AM
#112
At the end of the TourX production run, ~$40k vehicles were selling for -26k (massive discounts and manufacturer rebates). Sure, that was before the craziness of the past couple years and arguably the MSRP on them was pretty inflated, but I also can’t see the wagons ever making the comeback. It’s nice that some of the European manufacturers are keeping them alive, but they’re (IMHO) permanently relegated to the niche market.
07-22-23, 09:49 AM
#113
Lexus Fanatic
I agree with the concept of low-slung wagons not coming back again in any significant number, simply because most buyers, today, want more ground clearance and a higher-stance. But the appeal of higher-stance, raised-suspension wagons has been proved for many years, particularly with the Subaru Outback and Forester.
07-22-23, 10:13 AM
#114
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
07-22-23, 10:57 AM
#115
Lexus Fanatic
I agree with the concept of low-slung wagons not coming back again in any significant number, simply because most buyers, today, want more ground clearance and a higher-stance. But the appeal of higher-stance, raised-suspension wagons has been proved for many years, particularly with the Subaru Outback and Forester.
07-22-23, 01:06 PM
#116
Lexus Fanatic
I had a 2006 Outback for over 5 years.....I can understand its popularity, particularly in the winter, Best snow vehicle I ever owned, even with all-season tires. Unbelievable traction. I wouldn't call it a niche product.....its popularity is enormous, particularly in this D.C. area and in New England, West Virginia, the Rockies, and the Northwest.
As far as crossovers vs. AWD wagons, it can be sometimes be hard to differentiate between some of them....you yourself alluded to that in an earlier post. Other good examples besides the Forester are the Honda Crosstour, 1st-Generation Toyota Venza, Audi Avant/All-Road, and Volvo XC70.
07-22-23, 01:14 PM
#117
Lexus Fanatic
As far as crossovers vs. AWD wagons, it can be sometimes be hard to differentiate between some of them....you yourself alluded to that in an earlier post. Other good examples besides the Forester are the Honda Crosstour, 1st-Generation Toyota Venza, Audi Avant/All-Road, and Volvo XC70.
07-25-23, 04:59 AM
#118
Out of Warranty
I worked for an industrial production company which in a paroxysm of social responsibility, decided to equip all of us new hires with Pinto wagons . . . instead of the then-standard full-size Fords. I was the first of this group, but there would be several others in the following year as we expanded (it was in `94, I believe). We needed the wagon because we hauled a lot of video gear to locations all over the state (If you had to fly, considering interstate trips, you could plead that you NEEDED to rent a full size wagon to haul the gear because there weren't too many mini-wagons available in rental fleets at the time.)
Driving that Pinto with a couple hundred pounds of electronics, tripods, lights, cables, etc. in the "wayback" resulted in some pretty nasty handling and we wrecked our rides on a regular basis (Significantly, all one-car accidents) After a year's worth of social responsibility, the boss gave up - and as a regional manager by then, I ended up with a new full-size Chevy Impala wagon. That was really NICE, and at about $10K (in those days) only about $2700 more than the pint-sized Pinto.
My experience with the big wagon included a carwash attendant smashing mine into another car (causing about $1500 worth of damage on it's second day in my hands), but that front-end impact would have TOTALED a Pinto. The boss did the math and we stuck with full-size company cars after that - those small wagons burned a bit less fuel, but required replacement after even minor accidents. Not a good trade-off, especially when employees were also getting hurt in simple fender-benders in our mini-rides (yeah, I was just the first one). As they say, there's no substitute for sheer avoirdupois.
Driving that Pinto with a couple hundred pounds of electronics, tripods, lights, cables, etc. in the "wayback" resulted in some pretty nasty handling and we wrecked our rides on a regular basis (Significantly, all one-car accidents) After a year's worth of social responsibility, the boss gave up - and as a regional manager by then, I ended up with a new full-size Chevy Impala wagon. That was really NICE, and at about $10K (in those days) only about $2700 more than the pint-sized Pinto.
My experience with the big wagon included a carwash attendant smashing mine into another car (causing about $1500 worth of damage on it's second day in my hands), but that front-end impact would have TOTALED a Pinto. The boss did the math and we stuck with full-size company cars after that - those small wagons burned a bit less fuel, but required replacement after even minor accidents. Not a good trade-off, especially when employees were also getting hurt in simple fender-benders in our mini-rides (yeah, I was just the first one). As they say, there's no substitute for sheer avoirdupois.
Last edited by Lil4X; 07-25-23 at 05:12 AM.
07-25-23, 06:44 AM
#119
Lexus Fanatic
Driving that Pinto with a couple hundred pounds of electronics, tripods, lights, cables, etc. in the "wayback" resulted in some pretty nasty handling and we wrecked our rides on a regular basis (Significantly, all one-car accidents) After a year's worth of social responsibility, the boss gave up - and as a regional manager by then, I ended up with a new full-size Chevy Impala wagon. That was really NICE, and at about $10K (in those days) only about $2700 more than the pint-sized Pinto.
My experience with the big wagon included a carwash attendant smashing mine into another car (causing about $1500 worth of damage on it's second day in my hands), but that front-end impact would have TOTALED a Pinto. The boss did the math and we stuck with full-size company cars after that - those small wagons burned a bit less fuel, but required replacement after even minor accidents. Not a good trade-off, especially when employees were also getting hurt in simple fender-benders in our mini-rides (yeah, I was just the first one). As they say, there's no substitute for sheer avoirdupois.
My experience with the big wagon included a carwash attendant smashing mine into another car (causing about $1500 worth of damage on it's second day in my hands), but that front-end impact would have TOTALED a Pinto. The boss did the math and we stuck with full-size company cars after that - those small wagons burned a bit less fuel, but required replacement after even minor accidents. Not a good trade-off, especially when employees were also getting hurt in simple fender-benders in our mini-rides (yeah, I was just the first one). As they say, there's no substitute for sheer avoirdupois.
