coming big uaw strike?
09-20-23, 10:02 AM
#151
Pole Position
There is no magic money pot, correct, but there is/was a significant pot of margin and free cashflow that on a perfectly reasonable analysis has been used inequitably, and often in the direct/indirect pursuit of matters tied to executive compensation. Stock buybacks and dividends are prime examples, both directly drive stock price, and stock grants plus stock price targets are, generally speaking, the most significant components of executive compensation and bonus plans.
Notably then, as it relates to the subject of this thread, all made by labor that belongs to a union.
Notably then, as it relates to the subject of this thread, all made by labor that belongs to a union.
09-20-23, 10:07 AM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
People buying used instead of new means less revenue this is not an assumption.
I'm willing to bet that if the UAW gets what they want Ford and GM will have no choice but to raise prices. Especially since workers will be getting paid to work 40 hours but work 32. Companies that don't have knee capping labour agreements will be able to squeeze the life out of GM and Ford.
Yes there's no free money pot, but we don't know if a 23% raise is going to dent the revenues/profit margins so severely that the automaker will have no choice but to either significantly increase MSRP or cut total employee count. I'm willing to bet that the an increase in pay over the span of 3 years or so isn't going to cut these manufacturers too deep, especially if they keep the 2 tier system.
09-20-23, 10:12 AM
#153
Lead Lap
People buying used instead of new means less revenue this is not an assumption.
I'm willing to bet that if the UAW gets what they want Ford and GM will have no choice but to raise prices. Especially since workers will be getting paid to work 40 hours but work 32. Companies that don't have knee capping labour agreements will be able to squeeze the life out of GM and Ford.
I'm willing to bet that if the UAW gets what they want Ford and GM will have no choice but to raise prices. Especially since workers will be getting paid to work 40 hours but work 32. Companies that don't have knee capping labour agreements will be able to squeeze the life out of GM and Ford.
09-20-23, 10:24 AM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
The UAW's opening ask was a 32 hour workweek and 46% raise. This is basic negotiation. They aren't going to get that. That's the theater part of union negotiations. The realistic ask is what we're actually speculating on, and one thing is for sure in my mind is that they deserve at least 20%.
09-20-23, 10:34 AM
#155
The most egregious thing I've heard is that they want back what they gave up in the bankruptcy in 2008. Well, they should just be thankful they got bailed out by taxpayers and kept the pay and benefits that still exceeded the pay and benefits of some of the taxpayers that bailed them out. Not sure why they think they are better than everyone else to get that type of protection. If most people's company go under, they have to deal with it on their own. No gov handouts to guarantee their livelihoods. Most people don't get pensions anymore. Why do they think they are entitled to these types of benefits? Just greed.
09-20-23, 10:47 AM
#156
Lead Lap
The 20% increase would bring them right in line with places like the Toyota factory in Kentucky. That's why the Big 3 put it on the table in subsequent offers last week. The UAW rejected it because they want to push for more increases and abolishment of the two tier system. I don't know where I sit on the two tier system just yet so I'm on the fence as to whether they should've just taken the follow up offer.
Last edited by TangoRed; 09-20-23 at 11:17 AM.
09-20-23, 11:10 AM
#157
Pole Position
You must have never worked with high level executives to make that statement. Anyone that has worked with top executives knows that their day doesnt end at 5pm and often begins well before 9am. They are not paid to screw cars together. They are paid to make business decisions to keep the company afloat and keep workers employed. What you are thinking off are the images portrayed in movies and on TV. They dont sit in their offices and play golf. They are constantly trying to put out fires and how to keep the company moving along.
09-20-23, 11:10 AM
#158
Lexus Fanatic
it isn't????
https://www.thenation.com/article/po...-striking-uaw/
Maybe, in some cases, for very high-demand vehicles (Bronco, Maverick, Corvette C8, etc...), but, for the most part, the automakers will not be able to raise prices, even with new UAW contracts....after the crippling inflation of the last few years, most the public simply won't pay higher prices. The will probably keep their older vehicles or buy on the used-car market.
I say "most" of the public, because, of course, there will always be some exceptions.
https://www.thenation.com/article/po...-striking-uaw/
Middle class will end up paying more for vehicles.
I say "most" of the public, because, of course, there will always be some exceptions.
09-20-23, 11:15 AM
#159
Pole Position
And you are sure that American made car doesnt have parts imported from less friendly countries? Where is that Buick that you are so proud of made and you sure it doesnt have parts from China?
09-20-23, 11:19 AM
#160
Pole Position
it isn't????
https://www.thenation.com/article/po...-striking-uaw/
Maybe, in some cases, for very high-demand vehicles (Bronco, Maverick, Corvette C8, etc...), but, for the most part, the automakers will not be able to raise prices, even with new UAW contracts....after the crippling inflation of the last few years, most the public simply won't pay higher prices. The will probably keep their older vehicles or buy on the used-car market.
I say "most" of the public, because, of course, there will always be some exceptions.
https://www.thenation.com/article/po...-striking-uaw/
Maybe, in some cases, for very high-demand vehicles (Bronco, Maverick, Corvette C8, etc...), but, for the most part, the automakers will not be able to raise prices, even with new UAW contracts....after the crippling inflation of the last few years, most the public simply won't pay higher prices. The will probably keep their older vehicles or buy on the used-car market.
I say "most" of the public, because, of course, there will always be some exceptions.
09-20-23, 11:23 AM
#161
Lexus Fanatic
Dealers got away with big markups a few years ago. For the most part, except maybe with a few high-demand vehicles today like I indicated above, the public simply won't tolerate it any more.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-20-23 at 11:37 AM.
09-20-23, 11:27 AM
#162
Lexus Fanatic
That's why we have parts-content lists on new-vehicle price-stickers....so the vehicle buyer has a trail of who built the vehicle and/or where the major-parts came from.
And, to answer your question, Buick Encore GX models for the American market are produced at Bupyeong, South Korea......a Unionized plant. Those for the Chinese market are produced in China. If I had my choice, I would rather see them produced here, in the U.S., at a UAW plant...but, at least, Korean production, with union labor, is clearly preferable to a Chinese sweat-shop. I have no qualms buying a Korean-made vehicle....and my brother has bought four of them.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-20-23 at 11:33 AM.
09-20-23, 11:36 AM
#163
Lexus Fanatic
Although not many details have been released, Ford narrowly averted a UNIFOR strike in Canada last night....and having to deal with strikes on both sides of the border.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/20/ford-avoids-canadian-auto-strike-with-unifor-union-deal.html
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2023/09/19/unifor-negotiations-with-ford-continue-past-contract-expiration/70899105007/
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/20/ford-avoids-canadian-auto-strike-with-unifor-union-deal.html
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2023/09/19/unifor-negotiations-with-ford-continue-past-contract-expiration/70899105007/
09-20-23, 11:44 AM
#164
Lexus Fanatic
The 67% of Americans who approve of labor unions today is down slightly from 71% a year ago but marks the fifth straight year this reading has exceeded its long-term average of 62%.
Maybe, in some cases, for very high-demand vehicles (Bronco, Maverick, Corvette C8, etc...), but, for the most part, the automakers will not be able to raise prices, even with new UAW contracts....after the crippling inflation of the last few years, most the public simply won't pay higher prices. The will probably keep their older vehicles or buy on the used-car market.
I say "most" of the public, because, of course, there will always be some exceptions.
I say "most" of the public, because, of course, there will always be some exceptions.
09-20-23, 12:03 PM
#165
Pole Position
Even if parts and sub-assemblies come from China, when you have unionized plants, no matter where those plants are located, the vehicles are assembled with union labor.
That's why we have parts-content lists on new-vehicle price-stickers....so the vehicle buyer has a trail of who built the vehicle and/or where the major-parts came from.
And, to answer your question, Buick Encore GX models for the American market are produced at Bupyeong, South Korea......a Unionized plant. Those for the Chinese market are produced in China. If I had my choice, I would rather see them produced here, in the U.S., at a UAW plant...but, at least, Korean production, with union labor, is clearly preferable to a Chinese sweat-shop. I have no qualms buying a Korean-made vehicle....and my brother has bought four of them.
That's why we have parts-content lists on new-vehicle price-stickers....so the vehicle buyer has a trail of who built the vehicle and/or where the major-parts came from.
And, to answer your question, Buick Encore GX models for the American market are produced at Bupyeong, South Korea......a Unionized plant. Those for the Chinese market are produced in China. If I had my choice, I would rather see them produced here, in the U.S., at a UAW plant...but, at least, Korean production, with union labor, is clearly preferable to a Chinese sweat-shop. I have no qualms buying a Korean-made vehicle....and my brother has bought four of them.