S55inPA

hey everyone,

i was checking the GX470 forum and i noticed a lot of complaints and
problems with the new GX.

it seems that MB is not the only manufacturer with some first year quality
issues.

i've been saying this on both MBWorld and ClubLexus that both car are
really nice and that Lexus seems to have the reliablity edge over MB.

so here's my question ...........where would Lexus be without the edge of the
reliability factor??

and...if the GX's reliability issues are a sign of things to come from Lexus...
why would anyone buy a Lexus as opposed to a MB????

the only reason that comes to my mind is that Lexus has a price advantage.

other than that i don't see any reason someone would purchase a Lexus
over a Mercedes.

Goldark

all the german stuff is usually taken by the japs and made smaller and better in some way.

kRonX

iTrader: (1)

Pesonal preference, stying, ride quality, comfort, quality service...

Plus the GX is only one of the models of Lexus... and you are generalizing the entire Lexus brand with your experience with this only one car. Its also a new model Lexus, and like any new model vehicle, there are bound to be some problems.

Vegassc400

Considering the GX is in it's first year and is the ONLY car in the Lexus line up that seems to be running into major problems, the comparison is moot. Lexus would have to screw up almost every car in the line up to equal MB's poor quality as of late. This is not opinion since JD Powers did their survey. Huge gap. Only then would I switch..... to an Infiniti G35.

I do have to say that their styling is incredible. I just got back from SEMA and the MB's they had there were gorgeous. Too bad very few were tastefully done. My wife loves the CLK's and I'm having a hard time stopping her from buying one since they are growing on me as well.

S55inPA

hey guys,

i guess what i'm trying to communicate is that without the ability to
tout quality would people buy as many Lexus automobiles
as they do???
i seriously doubt it. the main reason is that Lexus
automobiles tend to be very bland, vanilla, or in the cases of the new ES
and SC just plain unattractive.

MB has taken a lot of heat for quality issues in the past 4 years.
espcially from people who own Lexus automobiles. reliablity has been
Lexus's claim to fame.

i've owned a lot of different cars and one thing is for sure they all
have the ability to fail. so when i read the posts in the GX forum
i feel in some way vindicated that Lexus and MB are really not that far
apart in reliability.....if at all.

S55inPA

just a note guys,

i've had 4 MB's since 00.
my mother has had 2 since 99.
no major or annoying problems with any of them.
even my ML's have been trouble free....even with
the girlfriend stress testing it on a daily basis

Vegassc400

Don't get me wrong. I think MB used to make great cars. They still could if they worked out the gremlins. A lot of the bashing comes from former MB owners who switched to Lexus because of problems. Even current MB owners post negative comments about MB quality. They post negative comments for the same reason you post positive ones. Personal experience.

S55inPA

good point!

retrodrive

When I talk to most of the people who are planning to purchase an MB, Lexus or BMW, most of them have no idea about JD Powers and how reliable Lexus cars really are. Most base their purchase based on looks, numbers, quality of service, and most importantly, a testdrive. Personally, without reliability Lexus cars would still sell pretty well. There are many other positive factors that Lexus cars have to attract consumer attention.

P.S. Looks are a matter of preference (your SC comment) they would not matter much in this discussion.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Sure, Lexus does sell a lot because of its reliability. But bland, vanilla? How about an E320? Sure the E55 looks great, but the E320 doesn't. The S430 with small wheels looks like crap too. Your S55 looks great with the skirts, wheels, etc.

But MB has another problem - ergonomics. COMAND system is not quite as bad as iDrive, but pretty close.

But the reality is most people buy an MB because they wants to be able to say they own an MB (status symbol). Lexus is bought mostly by people who want to be viewed as comfortably affluent but practical. I bought a Lexus GS400 because it was fast, reliable, good looking (IMHO) and had GREAT ergonomics and features.

GX does seem to have some issues, but Lexus seems to be addressing them. Also, a few vocal people probably make the problems seem more widespread than they are. ML problems on the other hand occurred widely. It was well documented that the 'bama plant had problems starting up.

fireballs gs400

imho the c class coupes and sedans are very plain, and not my favorite at all. Benz do look the same, and the amg is the only thing that even catches my eye. Every car maker has a entry level and so on and up. Sometimes additudes get into the way when people shop for cars. IMHO if people knew what they know now, people have prob picked lexus first, not because it wasn't as expensive, or not because it has the flashy look, but because you will get the better bang for your buck. I took a ride in my friends sclass 500 four door sedan, 1999 model. we went to pass a truck, and it threw a rod. 55k on the odometer. Needless to say, he wasn't happy his car did that to him.
Cars are cars, and they are what you put into them, but others put out while others don't

jet864

I have a few problems with your posts. First off, your main point, whether Lexus would sell without reliability, is a question which could be responded by me asking you if you think MB would sell without its prestigious history. In both cases, these aspects define the cars, and in both cases, the other car company is lacking in that respective area. Lexus does not have a firm history, being relatively new to America (less than 15 years) and MB is not known for their reliability and it has gotten worse since the introduction of SUVs. Lexus has done a great job making a name for themselves (moreso than infiniti or Acura) and is now considered "one of the three main luxury companies" with MB and BMW. With already classic designs such as the first generation SCs and the soon to be discontinued GSs, Lexus is serious in the luxury car game.

In regards to your seemingless pointless comments about how "ugly" the SC and ES are, they have no basis here, and if you wanna get into ugly, I'm sure we'll have a lot of fun (G class A class and C class sport coupe thingy). These are the kinds of comments that start flame wars and lead into cross forum battles which basically, I don't think any respectable members want to have to deal with.

Personally, I think Lexus would sell great without their reliability due to the high quality refinements, smooth engines, comfortable ride, and largely, pretty supportive aftermarket which is still based in the Japanese tunerability which many prefer.

However, I ask you this, do you believe Mercedes Benz, independent of Chrysler could come into AMerica and have as strong of a customer basis as Lexus does in 15 years or less? Naw, I don't see that one happening.

James

jet864

Oh, and I forgot to say, we have a 2004 CLK500 and a 96 SC400 in our garage, and in the 3 months, the CLK has had more problems than the 7 year old, 113K mile Lexus has had in over a year (got it last fall).

James

RNM GS3

I completely disagree with all ur statements.

When I got my GS, it was not bec it had great reliability, and I dont think other CL members bought their cars only because they are reliable. I bought it because to me its one of the nicest designed cars on the road, and its interior is very luxurious. Also the prestige, quality of product, service, etc. factor into my decision.

BTW Have u set in a Lexus GS, SC, LS? or heard the Mark Levinson stereo system? or used a DVD based Navigation system? I guess not, bec then u wouldnt be calling Lexus bland and wondering why people buy them instead of MB.

As far as comparing reliability between Lexus and MB, u are joking right? True the GX has some problems but that is one model in the lineup. ES, IS, GS, LS, SC, RX, and LX have no major issues. My father got 1 of the very first 2004 RX 330s, can u guess how many problems it has had so far? .....Zero. Oh and BTW the only problem i have had with mine is a rattle noise which was fixed.
Now lets look at MB. Every model in their lineup is full of problems - beginning with the ML all the way to the new E, and the new E class has lots of them, go check mbworld.org for pages of threads that complain about them.

I like MB a lot especially the S and CL class. They make great cars but their technology and quality sucks badly. To be honest with u, if i had around 80k i would still get the LS over S500 bec its a better car, has more features, faster, and more luxurious,and not bec its reliable as u say.

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

alot of people (my parents and other family members included) purchased Mercedes for no other reason other than IT'S A TRI-STAR MERCEDES. If Mercedes don't have the NAME, it wouldn't sell any better than Kias. Why would someone pay 35k 40k for a C-class that's small, looks like Hyundai, and performs like nothing?

My dad's SL has minor problems and my mom's E-class has many problems. I've converted a few Mercedes loyalists in my family into buying a Lexus. No one turned back to Mercedes. My uncle (MB loyalist #1) bought 4 Lexuses after the first one and never looked at Mercedes again. Recently he's contemplating the CL55, but after hearing that even S55 and CL55s have quality issues, he is going to wait.

I must say that I still like Mercedes, but I wouldn't buy one. I test drove a CLK320 3 hours before I purchased my GS and why I ended up getting the GS is simple. With window price of $46k, I don't see how the CLK could be worth it with its loosely assembled interior and not-too-impressive performance. My GS isn't any faster but I'm still glad that I got the GS over the CLK.

Yes all cars will have problems. But having 1 problematic Lexus out of 100 and having 20 problematic Mercedes out of 100 is very different. Mercedes is a century old. But the only thing that lasts is the name, nothing else.