Toyota/Lexus seem to be struggling with crash test performance...
12-19-23, 08:57 AM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
12-19-23, 09:33 AM
#17
Pole Position
I'm not sure I would make the assumption that Toyota told them to apply the results to the TX. Secondly, relying on the words of an automaker is not doing your own due diligence, if your assumption is true. What if the TX tests even worse or better? What if the GH tested poor, would Lexus want to be associated with that result? So it doesnt make sense to me.
12-19-23, 09:36 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I'm not sure I would make the assumption that Toyota told them to apply the results to the TX. Secondly, relying on the words of an automaker is not doing your own due diligence, if your assumption is true. What if the TX tests even worse or better? What if the GH tested poor, would Lexus want to be associated with that result? So it doesnt make sense to me.
You imply a separation between Toyota and Lexus that doesn't exist. Lexus is just a marketing division of Toyota.
12-19-23, 10:22 AM
#19
Pole Position
I am pretty comfortable in my confidence in the IIHS. I'm sure they would want to test a TX if they felt there would be any difference in the result., and the reason they didn't test one was that they were told by Toyota there was no reason to since they were testing the GH. They are essentially the same vehicle.
You imply a separation between Toyota and Lexus that doesn't exist. Lexus is just a marketing division of Toyota.
You imply a separation between Toyota and Lexus that doesn't exist. Lexus is just a marketing division of Toyota.
12-19-23, 10:32 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
on compliant staff willing to tow the bean counters' lines. 
very good points. 
toyota/lexus these days reminds me of gm and ford of old... relying far too much on brand loyalty, with a 'make the money now' mindset.
maybe there's still a longer term plan there, knowing electrification is going to be hugely expensive anyway you slice it, so make the money now to make it not as painful down the road.
and toyota is basically right, that a giant chunk of the market (likely much bigger than ev potential buyers) would prefer a hybrid.
just in last 24 hours i had one person ask me how far i can go on a charge in my ev (wrong question) and another person how long does it take to charge from 0-100% (also wrong question, never happens). there's so much misinformation out there, ice and hybrids are going to be fine for many years.
Toyota made record profits this year, so I doubt cost was the issue. If anything, they probably figured people will buy our cars regardless of crash tests and just put in the minimum effort. For example, the current gen 4Runner and previous Camry all tested poorly they they sell them hand over fist.
toyota/lexus these days reminds me of gm and ford of old... relying far too much on brand loyalty, with a 'make the money now' mindset.
maybe there's still a longer term plan there, knowing electrification is going to be hugely expensive anyway you slice it, so make the money now to make it not as painful down the road.
and toyota is basically right, that a giant chunk of the market (likely much bigger than ev potential buyers) would prefer a hybrid.
just in last 24 hours i had one person ask me how far i can go on a charge in my ev (wrong question) and another person how long does it take to charge from 0-100% (also wrong question, never happens). there's so much misinformation out there, ice and hybrids are going to be fine for many years.
12-19-23, 03:23 PM
#21
Lexus Champion
Yeah. It's really looking like it's over.
12-19-23, 03:23 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Really? So a marketing department of Toyota builds cars? I completely disagree with you here. Where are you getting the information that Toyota told IIHS that they dont need to test the TX? Anybody that had tested both the GH and TX can tell you its a very different vehicle. Why would a "marketing department" go and tell the IIHS and the public at this point that their more expensive vehicle tests just as poorly as the cheaper variant? Does that make sense to any sensible person?
Where do I get the info? Its common sense. Why would the IIHS say that the results from the GH can be applied to the TX if they didn't have reason to believe they could be? I guarantee you will see the crash test ratings from the GH on window stickers for the TX.
I think you're reaching trying to explain away this poor performance out of allegiance to Lexus. The issue is not the IIHS, its that Toyota did not do as good a job designing these vehicles as they should have.
on compliant staff willing to tow the bean counters' lines.
maybe there's still a longer term plan there, knowing electrification is going to be hugely expensive anyway you slice it, so make the money now to make it not as painful down the road.
and toyota is basically right, that a giant chunk of the market (likely much bigger than ev potential buyers) would prefer a hybrid.
maybe there's still a longer term plan there, knowing electrification is going to be hugely expensive anyway you slice it, so make the money now to make it not as painful down the road.
and toyota is basically right, that a giant chunk of the market (likely much bigger than ev potential buyers) would prefer a hybrid.
12-19-23, 07:26 PM
#23
IIHS and NHTSA both appear to rely heavily on information provided by manufacturers. For the TX, three of the four crash test results listed on the the IIHS website were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS. For the GH, two of the three crash tests listed on the IIHS website were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS. For the Lexus NX, all four crash test results listed by IIHS were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS.
On NHTSA's website, for the Toyota Venza, they show RAV4 crash results, presumably based on Toyota's representation that the results would be the same.
On NHTSA's website, for the Toyota Venza, they show RAV4 crash results, presumably based on Toyota's representation that the results would be the same.
12-19-23, 07:48 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
IIHS and NHTSA both appear to rely heavily on information provided by manufacturers. For the TX, three of the four crash test results listed on the the IIHS website were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS. For the GH, two of the three crash tests listed on the IIHS website were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS. For the Lexus NX, all four crash test results listed by IIHS were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS.
On NHTSA's website, for the Toyota Venza, they show RAV4 crash results, presumably based on Toyota's representation that the results would be the same.
On NHTSA's website, for the Toyota Venza, they show RAV4 crash results, presumably based on Toyota's representation that the results would be the same.
12-19-23, 08:08 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
IIHS and NHTSA both appear to rely heavily on information provided by manufacturers. For the TX, three of the four crash test results listed on the the IIHS website were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS. For the GH, two of the three crash tests listed on the IIHS website were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS. For the Lexus NX, all four crash test results listed by IIHS were conducted by Toyota, not IIHS.
On NHTSA's website, for the Toyota Venza, they show RAV4 crash results, presumably based on Toyota's representation that the results would be the same.
On NHTSA's website, for the Toyota Venza, they show RAV4 crash results, presumably based on Toyota's representation that the results would be the same.
IIHS also tests cars themselves and then replaces the results with their own tests when they have them.
12-19-23, 08:33 PM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Well cant say the K platform is a premium platform with stamped steel suspension and its inability to scale in size without huge reworking of the structure. Although I am very impressed with the lack of creaks and flex from the Sienna's structure, it still shudders like a big box would.
12-20-23, 10:10 AM
#27
I don’t know why everyone seems so “surprised” by the lackluster crash test results. Toyota has never really placed safety as number one priority when designing their vehicles.
Doesn't everyone remember how terribly Toyota and Lexus sedans did in the small overlap test when it was first introduced in 2012? Camry, Prius V, ES, IS all received Poor and had massive intrusion into the passenger compartment. Meanwhile Honda and Volvo had sedans that did Good straight out of the gate. No emergency reengineering needed.
take the first gen XC90 for example. A design that dated all the way back to 2002 aced the small overlap test in 2013 its last year of production. Pretty impressive and shows you how ahead of the curve Volvo was on safety. 2012 S60 did Good. 2012 C Class did Marginal…….
Doesn't everyone remember how terribly Toyota and Lexus sedans did in the small overlap test when it was first introduced in 2012? Camry, Prius V, ES, IS all received Poor and had massive intrusion into the passenger compartment. Meanwhile Honda and Volvo had sedans that did Good straight out of the gate. No emergency reengineering needed.
take the first gen XC90 for example. A design that dated all the way back to 2002 aced the small overlap test in 2013 its last year of production. Pretty impressive and shows you how ahead of the curve Volvo was on safety. 2012 S60 did Good. 2012 C Class did Marginal…….
12-20-23, 10:26 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Doesn't everyone remember how terribly Toyota and Lexus sedans did in the small overlap test when it was first introduced in 2012? Camry, Prius V, ES, IS all received Poor and had massive intrusion into the passenger compartment. Meanwhile Honda and Volvo had sedans that did Good straight out of the gate. No emergency reengineering needed.
12-20-23, 10:55 AM
#29
I don’t think it’s fair to say “basically” everyone failed the test. Honda Accord, Acura TL, ALL Volvo models and maybe a few others did good straight out of the gate. Many other cars like the Mercedes C class did Marginal or Acceptable which was still way better than the poor performing Lexus models.
12-20-23, 11:04 AM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I don’t think it’s fair to say “basically” everyone failed the test. Honda Accord, Acura TL, ALL Volvo models and maybe a few others did good straight out of the gate. Many other cars like the Mercedes C class did Marginal or Acceptable which was still way better than the poor performing Lexus models.