Hybrid sales booming
12-23-23 | 11:32 AM
#32
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,888
Likes: 807
not sure which comment is 13 years late, but phev's for example weren't really out there 13 years ago.
and no, they're not on borrowed time any time soon. phev's will likely check the boxes for many for the next 5 years... one big problem though, is obviously they're not cheap to make and availability is often quite limited. ev's will likely continue to come down in price, but as usual, the issue is urban/comdo/apartment charging. we're a loooong way from enough chargers.
and no, they're not on borrowed time any time soon. phev's will likely check the boxes for many for the next 5 years... one big problem though, is obviously they're not cheap to make and availability is often quite limited. ev's will likely continue to come down in price, but as usual, the issue is urban/comdo/apartment charging. we're a loooong way from enough chargers.
PHEV is pointless. If you could have a charger, you’d go EV. Not buy a heavier hybrid which gets worse fuel economy than a hybrid if you can’t charge it.
Latest developing from Toyota is to have lighter batteries and lighter electric motors and keep on using the light weight 4 pot engine to keep mpg up.
12-23-23 | 12:21 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,355
Likes: 2,790
From: Maryland
If I could get off at any exit and grab a 20 minute charge, then yeah I would rather have an EV, but we are a long way off from that still. So, for a family vehicle for us the PHEV will beat the EV every day.
Not even the slightest bit pointless at the current time
12-23-23 | 06:18 PM
#34
Pit Crew
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 243
Likes: 100
From: CA
I have been looking into a PHEV (Lexus NX 450h+), and have decided I would be better off with a regular hybrid (NX 350h). I own a 2022 NX 350h, which I really like, but need another car to replace a 2012 Camry. I have been looking into the cost of operating the NX450h+, and it appears it will be higher than the 350h.
For the 450h+, the EPA estimate is 84 MPGe, which means it would take 40 kw to drive 100 miles. At my current electricity rates (.34 to .43 cents per kw depending on monthly usage), it would cost $13.60 to $17.20 to drive 100 miles. The EPA estimate for hybrid mode on the 450h+ is 36 mpg, so it would cost $14.44 (at the current $5.20 per gallon price here in California) to drive 100 miles after the plug in battery is depleted. I looked into Time of Use rates, but my total bill would go up since I use my home AC during prime hours in the summer, and those extra costs would be far higher than the savings on charging at a lower rate. I looked into solar last year, but the payback period was about 25 years. The State Government has rolled back the incentives for going solar since then, so the payback period would be longer today. I also looked into charging stations near my house, but there were not any nearby that were open to the public (and were actually working.)
On the 350h, the EPA estimate is 39 mpg, which means it would cost $13.33 to drive 100 miles. I have been averaging over 46 mpg, so the actual cost today would be $11.30. So for me, the PHEV does not make economic sense.
For the 450h+, the EPA estimate is 84 MPGe, which means it would take 40 kw to drive 100 miles. At my current electricity rates (.34 to .43 cents per kw depending on monthly usage), it would cost $13.60 to $17.20 to drive 100 miles. The EPA estimate for hybrid mode on the 450h+ is 36 mpg, so it would cost $14.44 (at the current $5.20 per gallon price here in California) to drive 100 miles after the plug in battery is depleted. I looked into Time of Use rates, but my total bill would go up since I use my home AC during prime hours in the summer, and those extra costs would be far higher than the savings on charging at a lower rate. I looked into solar last year, but the payback period was about 25 years. The State Government has rolled back the incentives for going solar since then, so the payback period would be longer today. I also looked into charging stations near my house, but there were not any nearby that were open to the public (and were actually working.)
On the 350h, the EPA estimate is 39 mpg, which means it would cost $13.33 to drive 100 miles. I have been averaging over 46 mpg, so the actual cost today would be $11.30. So for me, the PHEV does not make economic sense.
12-26-23 | 05:38 AM
#37
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 300
Likes: 1
From: MA
As an owner of a PHEV (2023 Volvo V60 Polestar) I can say that I think it’s perfect bridge technology for me. I debated a pure EV and decided the range anxiety wasn’t worth it. Certainly lifestyle and daily driving habits are most important if you’re going to get any edge with this set up. In my case I’m retired and a large portion of my driving is done in pure EV mode with most trips within a 40 mile round trip ensuring no petrol burn, but we do some serious road trips as well and IMHO the grid for recharging and the time invested to charge up is, while getting better, not ready for prime time. The real kicker is that this particular car has a couple of personalities, EV is quiet and reasonably quick, but in Polestar mode this car is a beast and just a blast to drive, pretty stealthy wagon. I’m not delusional that I will recoup the premium cost for the car in gas savings but it’s nice to go a month without filling up.
Last edited by JTMav; 12-26-23 at 06:24 AM.
12-26-23 | 08:20 AM
#38
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 12,179
Likes: 1,277
From: Ohio
12-26-23 | 08:21 AM
#39
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 12,179
Likes: 1,277
From: Ohio
Full EV or pure ICE, any intermingling makes it worse/undesirable. Hybrids are a pain in the *** to modify and keep long term, EVs are never going to be modified so they are more of a lease and replace item and they do that very well.
12-26-23 | 08:56 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,355
Likes: 2,790
From: Maryland
Owning a PHEV now, I think the technology is great and from a practical standpoint it really does make a ton of sense for people who want an EV but are concerned about range anxiety when traveling. An S580e is probably the perfect car for me on paper, 60 miles of EV range I would get to enjoy and basically never buy gas, but when traveling no range anxiety.
The issue is the sort of car I pay for. Love the PHEV in the Pacifica, but for a $130,000+ S Class, you get EV range but not EV power (it only has like 150 hp in EV only mode), you get gas for travel but in a 6 cyl that is less smooth and enjoyable as the V8. So, its a compromise at that price point I don't like. Give me a full EV and I will just deal with it should I take it on a trip and get the powerful excellent EV driving experience all the time, or give me the TTV8 and I will just buy the gas...
12-27-23 | 04:38 AM
#42
Racer
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 210
the article you posted is too late to the hybrid game.
PHEV is pointless. If you could have a charger, you’d go EV. Not buy a heavier hybrid which gets worse fuel economy than a hybrid if you can’t charge it.
Latest developing from Toyota is to have lighter batteries and lighter electric motors and keep on using the light weight 4 pot engine to keep mpg up.
PHEV is pointless. If you could have a charger, you’d go EV. Not buy a heavier hybrid which gets worse fuel economy than a hybrid if you can’t charge it.
Latest developing from Toyota is to have lighter batteries and lighter electric motors and keep on using the light weight 4 pot engine to keep mpg up.
I have a little bit of gas in the car but if I don’t need it, I’m not using it. I save gas for roadtrips or when my wife drives and she burns thru the EV range running errands.We've had a RAV4 Prime for almost 3 years, our second PHEV. It makes a ton of sense where I live where we get real cold (-35C) and hundreds of km between DC chargers. PHEV are not a one-size fits all vehicle but superior to an EV around here in winter anyway. If you don't have home charging a hybrid should be your #1 vehicle choice.
12-27-23 | 07:13 AM
#43
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,166
Likes: 11
From: Southeastern PA
Our RAV4 hybrid does get better mpg on highway than our RAV4 Prime. I’ve taken both on the exact same roadtrip. The PHEV is heavier due to its bigger battery but it also has 19 inch wheels vs the hybrid has 18 inch wheels. However it’s no comparison when commuting around city as I’m always in EV mode. I keep my level 1 charger in the car and if I’m going to be stopped somewhere for a period of time and there’s a 🔌 nearby, I will plug in. I even have an extension cord just in case it’s further than 25ft. I have a little bit of gas in the car but if I don’t need it, I’m not using it. I save gas for roadtrips or when my wife drives and she burns thru the EV range running errands.
I have a little bit of gas in the car but if I don’t need it, I’m not using it. I save gas for roadtrips or when my wife drives and she burns thru the EV range running errands.
01-05-24 | 06:14 PM
#45
