General Car Conversation 2024 - part 1
01-26-24 | 07:17 AM
#751
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,674
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
from my stint at the toyota dealer i explicitly remember it seeming like toyota basically did everything they could to discourage leasing a land cruiser lol... there were NEVER any special programs or incentives, it was basically range rover money, or LX 570 money so naturally people went for the "better" version
unless you plan on keeping it at least a decade or more the land cruiser is a pretty tough sell, and if the person wasn't already a huge land cruiser fan to begin with it's a near impossible sell... it was also somewhat difficult to explain why it costs SO much more than a sequoia which is noticeably bigger and more spacious
unless you plan on keeping it at least a decade or more the land cruiser is a pretty tough sell, and if the person wasn't already a huge land cruiser fan to begin with it's a near impossible sell... it was also somewhat difficult to explain why it costs SO much more than a sequoia which is noticeably bigger and more spacious
The 4 runner confounds me, I have had 3 in recently so I've had a chance to drive 07/13/18 model year examples and the thing that I just don't understand is how cheap the interiors are for the money, how HUGE the car drives even though actual dimensions are quite small and MUCH smaller than a Range Rover, and how freaking underpowered and fuel hungry the things are. You get all of 16-17mpg to just be horridly slow and unresponsive, heavy, no turn in/stability or tracking all the while being in a cheap interior.......for $50-70k and even the old 07 I did major work on at 160k was STILL an almost $17k car used that then screwed over the owner with massive failures.
I would view it much differently if it was 20k cheaper new and about half that used and didn't drive worse than ANY full size truck and had 100 more HP. Aka I would just buy a full size if I needed truck but this is just outright non-competitive if you have driven anything other than a 4runner in the last decade and a half that is in this size class. You can make the off road argument sure but I counter with Land Rover, VW, Jeep, and the domestic trucks.
I would view it much differently if it was 20k cheaper new and about half that used and didn't drive worse than ANY full size truck and had 100 more HP. Aka I would just buy a full size if I needed truck but this is just outright non-competitive if you have driven anything other than a 4runner in the last decade and a half that is in this size class. You can make the off road argument sure but I counter with Land Rover, VW, Jeep, and the domestic trucks.
01-26-24 | 07:19 AM
#752
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,150
Likes: 255
From: Long Island
The 4 runner confounds me, I have had 3 in recently so I've had a chance to drive 07/13/18 model year examples and the thing that I just don't understand is how cheap the interiors are for the money, how HUGE the car drives even though actual dimensions are quite small and MUCH smaller than a Range Rover, and how freaking underpowered and fuel hungry the things are. You get all of 16-17mpg to just be horridly slow and unresponsive, heavy, no turn in/stability or tracking all the while being in a cheap interior.......for $50-70k and even the old 07 I did major work on at 160k was STILL an almost $17k car used that then screwed over the owner with massive failures.
I would view it much differently if it was 20k cheaper new and about half that used and didn't drive worse than ANY full size truck and had 100 more HP. Aka I would just buy a full size if I needed truck but this is just outright non-competitive if you have driven anything other than a 4runner in the last decade and a half that is in this size class. You can make the off road argument sure but I counter with Land Rover, VW, Jeep, and the domestic trucks.
I would view it much differently if it was 20k cheaper new and about half that used and didn't drive worse than ANY full size truck and had 100 more HP. Aka I would just buy a full size if I needed truck but this is just outright non-competitive if you have driven anything other than a 4runner in the last decade and a half that is in this size class. You can make the off road argument sure but I counter with Land Rover, VW, Jeep, and the domestic trucks.
01-26-24 | 07:22 AM
#753
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,674
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
yea it clearly feels like the chassis turns underneath you and then the rest of the car follows shortly after lol... also always thought it was a shame the 1UR from the GX 460 never made its way into the 4Runner as an available engine choice, the 1GR feels woefully slow and yea still gets pretty bad mpgs with no apparent upsides apart from simplicity and longevity
01-26-24 | 07:27 AM
#754
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 597
Likes: 8
From: TN
Not to mention the 4Runner has very little headroom inside with the sunroof. 6’5” and I do not fit in them at all. I had to drive one across town once and I was shocked at how slow it was. I had to floor it just to get on the expressway!
01-26-24 | 08:06 AM
#755
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,585
Likes: 24
From: Washington
All of these complaints are exactly why I've always been baffled at the 4Runner's stellar sales. The reliability factor is obviously huge but I know people who buy them and don't even keep them for longer than 5 years. I suppose the resale value factor is enticing for people as well.
01-26-24 | 08:17 AM
#756
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,674
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
All of these complaints are exactly why I've always been baffled at the 4Runner's stellar sales. The reliability factor is obviously huge but I know people who buy them and don't even keep them for longer than 5 years. I suppose the resale value factor is enticing for people as well.
01-26-24 | 08:30 AM
#758
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,942
Likes: 241
From: Knoxville, TN
I need no reasons to justify an LX (I just wanted a 200), but we just got more snow than in 30 years... the thing did not struggle one single time no matter what I threw at it. And y'all know me, I test things. I passed or inched by so many stuck 4x4 trucks.
You have to own one to get it, I don't want to drive anything else. I understand y'all saying they're too big but it doesn't bother me one bit. LX isn't that big.
You have to own one to get it, I don't want to drive anything else. I understand y'all saying they're too big but it doesn't bother me one bit. LX isn't that big.
01-26-24 | 08:33 AM
#759
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,585
Likes: 24
From: Washington
That's why we have choices. There's plenty of vehicles out there that don't "make sense" but are the perfect fit for their owner. It's really what got me into cars in the first place, there's so much variety!
01-26-24 | 08:36 AM
#760
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,150
Likes: 255
From: Long Island
All of these complaints are exactly why I've always been baffled at the 4Runner's stellar sales. The reliability factor is obviously huge but I know people who buy them and don't even keep them for longer than 5 years. I suppose the resale value factor is enticing for people as well.
01-26-24 | 08:43 AM
#761
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,942
Likes: 241
From: Knoxville, TN
We have a roadster, luxury sedan, and luxury SUV.
So many people would say it's a waste for one person to drive a huge 8 passenger SUV, but they can really KMA. I'll drive whatever I want.
01-26-24 | 08:48 AM
#762
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11,830
Likes: 1,255
From: Ohio
01-26-24 | 09:22 AM
#763
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 597
Likes: 8
From: TN
I do understand the appeal of the 4Runner. Attractive styling, and high reliability, rugged looks. And in my area they seem to be a stealth wealth status symbol for wealthy people who happily pay the inflated prices. I see lots of them with fancy roof racks, and Patagonia stickers on the back windows. People also frequently buy them for their kids first cars. Land Cruiser the same sort of appeal but in a much more refined package.
I would much rather have a GX 460. Way more comfortable and better power from the V8.
I would much rather have a GX 460. Way more comfortable and better power from the V8.
01-26-24 | 09:24 AM
#764
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,942
Likes: 241
From: Knoxville, TN
4 Runners are massively popular here, huggggge.
01-26-24 | 09:32 AM
#765
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,585
Likes: 24
From: Washington
They're super popular here too. Respect to Toyota, they know their customers and know how to create a strong following.