SW17LS

Further down the thread:

M178 is the AMG version of my M176, much better engineered.

SW17LS

Read the description I posted from that thread of mechanics. It’s designed in such a way that any replacement will be a massive labor nightmare vs the German engines that are designed for the turbo to be easily accessed and replaced.

A design that is complicated to work on with no benefit is poorly engineered.

Also from the thread:

Poorly engineered, lines should be replicable independently of the intercooler.

Toys4RJill

IF a rat chews. And realize you are using one Toyota engine and then lumping it against ALL German cars. The Audi I posted yesterday is a poorly engineered turbo motor, plastic water pumps and a PITA location with a rubber belt. As for service, I showed you that the Tundra turbos can be served via the wheel wellls debunking the idea that Toyota must have the body off. You are just being anti Toyota

SW17LS

Rats do chew these things a lot…there are also other ways those lines can fail. You can service the turbo through the wheel well but it’s easier and cheaper to raise the cab. The turbo shouldn’t be at the bottom of the engine is the point. Techs wouldn’t be raising the cabs if that wasn’t the easiest way.

I am just talking about one engine and compared it with one German engine. That Audi is a mess, note one of the mechanics I posted a quote from compared this engine to an Audi engine…that wasn’t a compliment.

Recognizing Toyotas flaws is not being anti Toyota. The fact is that they just don’t engineer many things well for serviceability and the Germans most notably MB and Mercedes are better at that in many ways. Toyota is not perfect. Fact is MB and BMW have their turbo layouts engineered in a better way.

Toys4RJill

Sure they do. Of course. But the idea that the master mechanic said IF a rat chews. So I’m fine if it is a mouse…only then are you safe buying this car.

a rodent once chewed thru the wiring on my 2004 4Runner for the headlight harness. But somehow Toyota was able to re-connect the wiring, roll tape it with electrical tape and they didn’t change me.

I highly doubt this. I am sure there are some far better packaging and engineering on some Toyota turbos…. The new 3.3 V6 comes to mind with the hot V configuration…this would be Toyotas first ever V6 diesel, and I believe it’s 2 stage turbo designed for reliability. it runs on one turbo and then when needed the second kicks in…but I’m not sure if each turbo can operate independently back and forth in single operation.(I think this is the operation or close to it)

I bet many Mercedes diesel engines have their turbos low

Anyways. Japan has a long rich history of turbo motors. I think the very first twin scroll turbo was in a Mazda in the 80s. Japan had two turbos on 4 cylinders back with Subaru, might have been a first but I’m not sure. Japan has been making turbo engines continuously for 40+ years



Nobody is saying this. Personally speaking, the LS500 doesn’t compete with the modern S or 7 series and A8. They are just below. A V8 would help. Same with LX and Sequiya

I think German engines are admirable. Don’t get me wrong. But I do think Japan makes far superior smaller engines N/A and turbo.

An engine that I believe is a remarkable achievement is the new G16E-GTS. 3 cylinder. Single scroll turbo. A whopping 100hp per cylinder and 187.5 HP per litre. Runs on oW-20 and has no electrification. Eventually this engine will be in more mainstream models

Lwerewolf

Not very impressive in light of, say, A-class AMG engine, which might be a 4cyl but is as tweaked from the get-go as possible. The only thing that I don't like about it is the low compression that they used to boost the max power even more - just make it the same as the AMG V8s and settle for 300/350 or whatever, it's plenty and the rest of the characteristics (i.e. the super short path from compressor to intake) will surely show.

As for the V35a - yet another 3.5l turbo v6. I guess you could argue that turbos are harder to pack in a 60deg. v6, but there's always the option of a small twin scroll unit... you don't need a big turbo for what you'd be trying to achieve with this car anyways. Reliability - we'll see, not really a mass equipped engine and Toyota sure has had some interesting blunders in the past.

Japanese making far superior smaller engines - maybe N/A (nobody else is really making NA), definitely not turbo - at least when comparing the 8ar-fts to any 2.0t german engine - seems to be more of a control/tune issue, but it is what it is. And yes, the germans tend to fail in all sorts of ways that shouldn't be an issue on anything remotely modern.

The intercooler assembly bit - it's inexcusable, but it isn't new (hydraulic brake pump assembly with motor & accumulator & ABS solenoid block - motor fails due to wear, buy the whole thing) and isn't a Toyota-only thing (see, say, BMW's n53 valve cover with its built-in failing PCV system). Still dumb beyond comprehension.

BayeauxLex

I saw a video guys stating the coyote engine is a carbon copy of the RB26 found in the GTR with 2 extra cylinders.

FrankReynoldsCPA

I saw that video.....those guys got dragged in the comments for their ignorance.

Striker223

Yes it does lol! If something takes 20-30 hours to replace vs 5 what do you think people will prefer to own even CPO?

There is an insane advantage to an 8 speed over a 6.

Striker223

I would argue parts are less, plus you can actually find the exact factory that makes them and buy from there vs the cryptic non-sense Toyota makes you suffer through to find the OEM. I know for a fact OE parts are the same between the LS and A8 but I can get OEM for much less on the Audis and FCP euro ensures I never have to pay again for brakes/arms etc

Toys4RJill

Very few people think like this and CPO. I think of terms of brand new. If a regular person has to analyze a 30 hr job vs a 5 hr job and decide they will buy a 5 hours repair car over a 30 hr repair car…then they can’t afford the car

And what regular Toyota repair takes 30 hours whereas a German car takes just 5 hours?


Just look at the performance of a 6 speed LX and a 8 speed LX. No difference. Nobody is saying a 6 speed is superior, what is being said in reference to the LX570 when it received the upgrade

Striker223

Yes so advanced it's outgunned by the Audi 2.7 from 1999.......

Or the 3.0 super
Or the current 3.0T
Or the B58
Or the Mercedes family of 6s
Or the ecoboost
Or the turbo V6 pentastar used in Maserati etc

I seriously doubt with not only how convoluted the Toyota engine is but also with how much plastic and actively controlled items there are in odd places (thermostats are a big one) that it won't only just break it will break and be annoying to work on as are ANY of the more complex Toyotas. Once again you are dealing with all this BS just to have a worse version of what everyone else has had for 10-25 years.

Striker223

And made of metal or standard hoses like on our V8s. Oh and easy to get to.....like as in can be done in your garage if needed no issues.

Striker223

The Germans are so much better at this Toyota is using THEIR ENGINE in the Toyota halo sports car lol!

HP/L doesn't matter at all when the little 3 cyl can't keep up with a MK5 golf that has a tune lol! Those horrible Audi 4 engines have a certain edge that makes people accept the annoyances and that's that they are cheap to DIY, and can easily make more power than anything Toyota has.

Toys4RJill

Nowhere I had I said HALO stuff or tuning etc. just simply said that the new engine is a pretty good achievement

assuming you are referring to the A45 AMG? That MB engine is a brilliant 4 cylinder, only other engine I know that supersedes that would be the very low volume Mitsubishi Lancer 2.0 that produces 440hp