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General Car Conversation 2024 - part 1

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Old 02-22-24, 09:31 AM
  #1591  
Toys4RJill
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https://www.carscoops.com/2023/12/ne...e-in-a-decade/
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Old 02-22-24, 10:09 AM
  #1592  
SW17LS
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The first word under the title "Incentives". MSRPs aren't coming down, transaction prices go down with incentives, like I said

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Old 02-22-24, 10:36 AM
  #1593  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
The first word under the title "Incentives". MSRPs aren't coming down, transaction prices go down with incentives, like I said
Did the average price drop?
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Old 02-22-24, 10:41 AM
  #1594  
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Originally Posted by Toys4RJill
Did the average price drop?
Sure but thats not what I was saying, I said you won't see MSRPs drop, you will see more rebates and ability to negotiate but MSRPs aren't going to come down.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:46 AM
  #1595  
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But…prices have dropped.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:49 AM
  #1596  
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Originally Posted by Toys4RJill
But…prices have dropped.
Prices haven't dropped, buyers have more ability to negotiate better prices because the market is softer.

Thats highly variable too as rebates come and go. For instance right now there are no rebates on S Classes, while at the end of the year last year there was a $10,000 rebate. My business partner just bought the same PHEV Pacifica Pinnacle I bought in October and he paid $10,000 more than I did because of fewer rebates, and his is a leftover 2023 same as mine. So, it depends on the car and the moment in time.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:51 AM
  #1597  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Prices haven't dropped, buyers have more ability to negotiate better prices because the market is softer.
The average price that consumers are paying has dropped.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:54 AM
  #1598  
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Originally Posted by Toys4RJill
The average price that consumers are paying has dropped.
That depends on the model and the rebates available in a given month. Like I just said average prices paid for the Pacifica and the S Class are higher than they were last year, not lower just because of how they are allocating rebates.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:55 AM
  #1599  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
I think you will have a hard time finding situations where car prices universally went down. It’s not going to happen, you’ll see incentives and all to move product.

The LS had the whole ultra luxury package with the power seats and controls in the rear from the very beginning, the LS400 also had available laser cruise control which never came here, as a couple of examples.
there will always be some examples that go in favour of other markets. However, overwhelmingly the US gets the top spec models. in the case of the current land cruiser, the United States only gets the top powertrain. in other markets, there is the 2.4 turbo as well as the 2.7 naturally aspirated in line 4 both with no hybrid.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:57 AM
  #1600  
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Originally Posted by Toys4RJill
there will always be some examples that go in favour of other markets. However, overwhelmingly the US gets the top spec models. in the case of the current land cruiser, the United States only gets the top powertrain. in other markets, there is the 2.4 turbo as well as the 2.7 naturally aspirated in line 4 both with no hybrid.
When it comes to Toyota and Lexus thats just not true. You're focusing on powertrains but there is a long history of them offering higher spec'ed cars in Japan and elsewhere in Asia than here.
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Old 02-22-24, 11:03 AM
  #1601  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
When it comes to Toyota and Lexus thats just not true. You're focusing on powertrains but there is a long history of them offering higher spec'ed cars in Japan and elsewhere in Asia than here.
well. If you don’t have the top powertrain, then you don’t have the top spec car.

another example is the Lexus IS. First generation the United States only got the in-line six version But the Lexus IS200 was sold with a 4 cylinder model alongside the IS300. And in some cases, just the IS200 was sold on its own

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Old 02-22-24, 11:08 AM
  #1602  
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Powertrain alone does not mean you have the top spec car. There are other options that Toyota/Lexus offer in other markets that do not make it to the US/CA. That's the point Steve's making. Top spec for the North American market =\= top spec globally
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Old 02-22-24, 11:18 AM
  #1603  
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Originally Posted by Allen K
Powertrain alone does not mean you have the top spec car. There are other options that Toyota/Lexus offer in other markets that do not make it to the US/CA. That's the point Steve's making. Top spec for the North American market =\= top spec globally
‘How could one have a top spec Land Cruiser with a 4.6 V8 when for a very long time, only the US received the 5.7 V8? Where could you get the Toyota 4Runner with a V8 other than the United States or Canada? Of course there are features that one might not be able to get in North America…absolutely …regulations prevent the US from having an RX with bladescan headlights…but Lexus RX270 never existed in US whereas it did elsewhere in the world with a person a few features that were not offered in the US spec model.
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Old 02-22-24, 12:17 PM
  #1604  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
so we can look at 'overpriced' as a subjective judgment or an objective assessment. side note, i didn't even think it was one word, thought it was over priced.

i think you're using it subjectively, so even if something sells like hotcakes you may still think (and are perfectly entitled to think) it's 'over priced'.

but objectively, if something is selling like crazy it isn't overpriced because lots of people think it's worth it, so your opinion at the very least is not popular.

so things like 'an apple product' are overpriced TO YOU. i've come to appreciate the value in build quality, design, reliability, features, and ease of use.
i work all day with all kinds of tech. i also hear from people who think an apple mac for example is overpriced. i can easily show that's not the case. if someone buys a bottom of the line windows laptop for example where apple doesn't bother trying to compete, then they think apple is overpriced. if one compares actual specs then the pricing is pretty similar and there are many things on a mac that windows doesn't have. want to edit pdf's? buy software on windows. in a mac it's built-in. want productivity suite? buy microsoft 365 for windows (or mac) or use the included apple suite on the mac. and if someone has an iphone it's an even bigger no brainer. take a photo on the iphone, it's almost instantly available on the mac. etc. but hey, some people just look at the initial purchase price and also don't know how to look at specs. love it when a client calls for help with a pc they bought themselves to 'save money'.

i know someone who just stayed at a hotel that is about $2000 a night. overpriced? maybe to most people, but if one can afford it and appreciates the amenities, rooms, atmosphere and service, it's worth it!
Obviously I understand supply and demand. I only use Apple products myself and pay the premium. That's what I meant when I mentioned the concept of something being overpriced and people buying it anyway.

So by this logic, a $22 Bloody Mary at an airport isn't overpriced?? It's stuff like this that I'm talking about. I still think the new LC is too expensive. Most people on this board called the 200LC overpriced, and it was. Why? No power lift gate, no power folding seats, etc. Silly not to spend a minimal amount more and get an LX which had all that and more, imho.
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Old 02-22-24, 12:24 PM
  #1605  
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Originally Posted by AJT123
So by this logic, a $22 Bloody Mary at an airport isn't overpriced?? It's stuff like this that I'm talking about. I still think the new LC is too expensive. Most people on this board called the 200LC overpriced, and it was. Why? No power lift gate, no power folding seats, etc. Silly not to spend a minimal amount more and get an LX which had all that and more, imho.
You may subjectively think its overpriced, but its not objectively overpriced because people are paying that price for the drink. If I had a bar at an airport and I could get people to pay me $22 for a bloody mary, thats what I would charge, we all would.

You can't understand supply and demand and not understand this. If people buy something at the price it costs, it is by definition not overpriced. It may be too expensive to be attractive to you but thats your own personal opinion for yourself, not an objective assessment of the product and its price.
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