General Car Conversation 2024 - part 1
#2551
Lexus Champion
If I recall correctly he was using an alternative intake of some sort and I know for sure it was using the mopar ECU not a stock unit. Fuel was dual 450lph pumps in a cell that was bolted on the trunk floor. Clutch was a twin plate unit that is hell to use and grabby as hell, flywheel was a lightweight and it was easy to stall or burnout if you weren't used to the very odd torque "spike" when the turbo hits. I think the bearings are clevite H spec, rings have a stainless top ring gapped wide for boost, head was ported and one step larger valves and the exhaust valves are not the same as stock. I don't remember if he swapped them to sodium filled or stainless, I usually swap to sodium filled in my engines but I'm not sure what his standard is.
Aka a comically fast mopar! They have so many cars that can be built like this it's very funny and makes the brand endearing to me
Last edited by Striker223; 03-21-24 at 10:25 PM.
#2552
as far as unnecessary fun car purchases go that's actually one of the least stupid ones you can buy lol
the quality of that era was still pretty good on the germany built cars, and the C55 is actually a surprisingly simple machine as far as no active suspension, or really any other electronic or mechanical trickery... just a C-class with a very solid (just comically big) engine and transmission, the only real "AMG" extra cost would be the extra fuel and brake parts can get a tad pricey, but a set of pads will last a LONG time under casual driving
i'd say don't bother though since the speed won't be impressive now that you have the IS 500! from a collector standpoint though i can honestly imagine clean examples of those early 00s AMGs becoming increasingly sought after, people see what's going on now with mercedes and realize what a special time it was to have those pretty cars available with such potent yet stout powertrains
the quality of that era was still pretty good on the germany built cars, and the C55 is actually a surprisingly simple machine as far as no active suspension, or really any other electronic or mechanical trickery... just a C-class with a very solid (just comically big) engine and transmission, the only real "AMG" extra cost would be the extra fuel and brake parts can get a tad pricey, but a set of pads will last a LONG time under casual driving
i'd say don't bother though since the speed won't be impressive now that you have the IS 500! from a collector standpoint though i can honestly imagine clean examples of those early 00s AMGs becoming increasingly sought after, people see what's going on now with mercedes and realize what a special time it was to have those pretty cars available with such potent yet stout powertrains
In a vacuum purchasing a C55 now makes zero sense but I've always wanted one. MB's from that era are so beautiful. It's only $23k too.
Btw, don't ever get rid of your E55. You'll regret it!
#2553
Lexus Champion
Speaking of AMG, my buddy who brokers has a C63S with the V8, I forget what year. No ride this time, unfortunately, because he's selling it FOR a client.
Granted this is at the dealer, but just for front pads and rotors is $5,000.
This insane quote is NOT for ceramic brakes.
Granted this is at the dealer, but just for front pads and rotors is $5,000.
This insane quote is NOT for ceramic brakes.
Last edited by AJT123; 03-22-24 at 05:46 AM.
#2554
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Kits featuring the Brembo 2-piece rotors are $1100 with Ferodo pads, or $1300 with OE Mercedes pads, then either install yourself or pay a local mechanic <$200 to do it for you. Then next time the parts are free and you only pay labor.
#2555
Lexus Champion
Yep even not sourced at the dealer, the front rotors are $1550 each if you want them stamped with the Mercedes logo. Same exact rotors (manufactured by VNE) without the logo are $513, or you can upgrade to Brembo 2-piece rotors for $481.
Kits featuring the Brembo 2-piece rotors are $1100 with Ferodo pads, or $1300 with OE Mercedes pads, then either install yourself or pay a local mechanic <$200 to do it for you. Then next time the parts are free and you only pay labor.
Kits featuring the Brembo 2-piece rotors are $1100 with Ferodo pads, or $1300 with OE Mercedes pads, then either install yourself or pay a local mechanic <$200 to do it for you. Then next time the parts are free and you only pay labor.
I love AMGs but don't have the need to own one, and wouldn't. But more power to anyone.
#2556
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
That's just beyond insane. My indy quoted me just over a grand for OEM rotors and pads. SL is no AMG but it's for sure a GT so the brakes are serious. They're also different calipers even bc of the Silver Arrow which I think is neat. OEM brakes are good, after a year of hard driving the brakes are still great and were given all clear by dealer.
The AMG rotors are a semi 2-piece, with a fixed hat and floating disc, a very different design that is dramatically more expensive to manufacture. They are also drilled and slotted, 390mm/15.3", and 36mm thick. Absolutely massive in comparison. The pads are a much more aggressive compound and over double the size to fit in the 6-piston rotors. It's just a totally different ballgame.
Given the differences, they should be significantly more expensive. Should they cost as much more like they do? Probably not. Lower-volume production certainly plays a role there.
#2558
Lexus Champion
Your SL has standard 1-piece rotors like every other car on the road, albeit drilled in the silver arrow edition. They measure 334mm/13.1" in diameter and 32mm thick, which is pretty decent size, but for reference still smaller than the 348mm fronts on my base E90 3-series, or the 370mm rears on my M3. OEM ones are about $120 each. OEM pads are about $110.
The AMG rotors are a semi 2-piece, with a fixed hat and floating disc, a very different design that is dramatically more expensive to manufacture. They are also drilled and slotted, 390mm/15.3", and 36mm thick. Absolutely massive in comparison. The pads are a much more aggressive compound and over double the size to fit in the 6-piston rotors. It's just a totally different ballgame.
Given the differences, they should be significantly more expensive. Should they cost as much more like they do? Probably not. Lower-volume production certainly plays a role there.
The AMG rotors are a semi 2-piece, with a fixed hat and floating disc, a very different design that is dramatically more expensive to manufacture. They are also drilled and slotted, 390mm/15.3", and 36mm thick. Absolutely massive in comparison. The pads are a much more aggressive compound and over double the size to fit in the 6-piston rotors. It's just a totally different ballgame.
Given the differences, they should be significantly more expensive. Should they cost as much more like they do? Probably not. Lower-volume production certainly plays a role there.
Do you know LS430 rotor size? When it came out the brakes were mentioned, C&D said the rotors were legit and huge.
#2559
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
It absolutely is expensive. I'd still go for it, but buy the parts I linked for the lifetime warranty, like I've done for my other cars. That way I only have to cry once.
#2560
geko, I was just looking at pads/rotors for your M3.
I saw some reasonable numbers and some eye watering ones lol. If you ever decided to do a brake job at the dealer it would be in the $2k-3k range?
I saw some reasonable numbers and some eye watering ones lol. If you ever decided to do a brake job at the dealer it would be in the $2k-3k range?
#2561
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
What I forgot to mention in the AMG conversation though, is that these massive rotors have a ridiculous capacity for heat, so unless you're absolutely destroying them on the track, they often don't require replacement until the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th set of pads. On "regular" cars the rotors are often so cheap that I just replace them with the pads by default. When I did brakes on my wife's Q7, I found that the beefy 375x36mm, semi-2-piece (but not floating like the AMG) rotors were fine and didn't need to be replaced. But I already had them, so I went ahead anyway. And now that I'll never have to pay for them again, they'll get done every time.
Back to the M3, I fully expect I'll just be pad slapping when the time comes. Since the factory pads dust horribly, that will probably be a set of iSweep i1500 or i2000 pads (about $700 for all 4 corners) or PSI RP1 pads ($850 for all 4 corners), which perform similarly to stock but dust 80-90% less When the time eventually comes to replace the rotors, I'll probably either stick with OEM, upgrade to the EBC true-2-piece (meaning the disc is replaceable by itself) ones which are about the same price, or have custom ones made by Adam's rotors. Of course I'll self-install, but if I didn't I think my indy would charge me two hours of labor ($185/hr) or less for all 4 corners.
#2562
Lexus Champion
Here are my rotors and calipers starting with the fronts:
About the LS430, the calipers are large:
Bad pic. But they are impressive OEM brakes, people who take these and ruin them need spacers all the timmmmmme to clear the calipers to put stupid rims on them.
This is what C&D said wayyyyy back in late 2000:
The car has the hardware to do the job. Displayed in cutaways at the press preview for the LS430, its major bits and pieces looked like landing-gear parts from an F-14 Tomcat. The front and rear suspensions are tidy, strong, and light, with hot-forged aluminum control arms and steering knuckles. The one-piece, two-piston brake calipers would be at home on a race car; the brake rotors are a foot across.
I keep saying LS430s are autobahn stormers, extremely over-engineered for high speed cruising just like the big German cars but not a lot of you agree. 130mph limiter feels like 90 and the car would reach 160MPH (or very close) ungoverned.
About the LS430, the calipers are large:
Bad pic. But they are impressive OEM brakes, people who take these and ruin them need spacers all the timmmmmme to clear the calipers to put stupid rims on them.
This is what C&D said wayyyyy back in late 2000:
The car has the hardware to do the job. Displayed in cutaways at the press preview for the LS430, its major bits and pieces looked like landing-gear parts from an F-14 Tomcat. The front and rear suspensions are tidy, strong, and light, with hot-forged aluminum control arms and steering knuckles. The one-piece, two-piston brake calipers would be at home on a race car; the brake rotors are a foot across.
I keep saying LS430s are autobahn stormers, extremely over-engineered for high speed cruising just like the big German cars but not a lot of you agree. 130mph limiter feels like 90 and the car would reach 160MPH (or very close) ungoverned.
Last edited by AJT123; 03-22-24 at 10:06 AM.
#2563
Lexus Champion
Yep even not sourced at the dealer, the front rotors are $1550 each if you want them stamped with the Mercedes logo. Same exact rotors (manufactured by VNE) without the logo are $513, or you can upgrade to Brembo 2-piece rotors for $481.
Kits featuring the Brembo 2-piece rotors are $1100 with Ferodo pads, or $1300 with OE Mercedes pads, then either install yourself or pay a local mechanic <$200 to do it for you. Then next time the parts are free and you only pay labor.
Kits featuring the Brembo 2-piece rotors are $1100 with Ferodo pads, or $1300 with OE Mercedes pads, then either install yourself or pay a local mechanic <$200 to do it for you. Then next time the parts are free and you only pay labor.
#2564
Lexus Champion
Thanks for the technical info. Of course owners will pay it, etc. but that is a hell of an expensive brake job for just one axle. That's why I'd pass, personally. I wonder if the calipers are technically any different other than being silver, I'll grab a pic when I go out.
Do you know LS430 rotor size? When it came out the brakes were mentioned, C&D said the rotors were legit and huge.
Do you know LS430 rotor size? When it came out the brakes were mentioned, C&D said the rotors were legit and huge.
On the other hand you get stuff like this on performance tier German cars....the rotors are the same size as my 430s entire rims were.
400x38.5mm floating rotors
Even "normal" SUVs get stuff like this
#2565
Lexus Champion
Here are my rotors and calipers starting with the fronts:
About the LS430, the calipers are large:
Bad pic. But they are impressive OEM brakes, people who take these and ruin them need spacers all the timmmmmme to clear the calipers to put stupid rims on them.
This is what C&D said wayyyyy back in late 2000:
The car has the hardware to do the job. Displayed in cutaways at the press preview for the LS430, its major bits and pieces looked like landing-gear parts from an F-14 Tomcat. The front and rear suspensions are tidy, strong, and light, with hot-forged aluminum control arms and steering knuckles. The one-piece, two-piston brake calipers would be at home on a race car; the brake rotors are a foot across.
I keep saying LS430s are autobahn stormers, extremely over-engineered for high speed cruising just like the big German cars but not a lot of you agree. 130mph limiter feels like 90 and the car would reach 160MPH (or very close) ungoverned.
About the LS430, the calipers are large:
Bad pic. But they are impressive OEM brakes, people who take these and ruin them need spacers all the timmmmmme to clear the calipers to put stupid rims on them.
This is what C&D said wayyyyy back in late 2000:
The car has the hardware to do the job. Displayed in cutaways at the press preview for the LS430, its major bits and pieces looked like landing-gear parts from an F-14 Tomcat. The front and rear suspensions are tidy, strong, and light, with hot-forged aluminum control arms and steering knuckles. The one-piece, two-piston brake calipers would be at home on a race car; the brake rotors are a foot across.
I keep saying LS430s are autobahn stormers, extremely over-engineered for high speed cruising just like the big German cars but not a lot of you agree. 130mph limiter feels like 90 and the car would reach 160MPH (or very close) ungoverned.