General Car Conversation 2024 - part 1
07-16-24, 07:59 AM
#5776
Lexus Fanatic
I think your S580 is supposed to be .52 or .61
What does it say in the manual?
.52 isn’t the right spec for this car though. .51 is harder to find. Just have to order it online.
They don’t require a specific spec, just a specific weight. Toyota absolutely has a formulation that they created, TGMO (Toyota Genuine Motor Oil) is formulated by Mobil to Toyotas specs. There’s not a specific spec per engine they require though like the Germans.
They don’t require a specific spec, just a specific weight. Toyota absolutely has a formulation that they created, TGMO (Toyota Genuine Motor Oil) is formulated by Mobil to Toyotas specs. There’s not a specific spec per engine they require though like the Germans.
The spec for my 4Runner is ILSAC GF-5
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-16-24 at 08:21 AM.
07-16-24, 08:09 AM
#5777
The best performance the car can deliver as a stock unit. That’s what “optimum” means.
If somebody can show me something is BETTER than what the engineers used when they designed and built the car then I will get that. So I use better than OEM tires and brakes and oils and things like that.
In Japanese cars there’s no such thing. Manufacturer says OCI Of 10k, but for a car I am going to keep I would do 5k. Lots of solid evidence that makes a difference in ultimate long term longevity since MB engines have a history of bore scoring which leads to loss of compression.
I agree it should have what the manufacturer suggests for whatever reason they suggest it. Even my independent mechanic has to order the .51 spec oil for me they always use .5.
It’s like Lexus using bulk shop oil vs using TGMO, you have to specify it.
That’s why I take issue to this idea that the engineers for the LX specified 91 for “marketing purposes”. Engineers don’t do that lol.
So, will my car be okay with the .50 spec oil? Sure. Will an LX be okay on 87 octane? Sure. Would I consider those cars well maintained with those things used? No. To me a car is well maintained when it is maintained to or beyond what is recommended by its designers.
It’s like Lexus using bulk shop oil vs using TGMO, you have to specify it.
That’s why I take issue to this idea that the engineers for the LX specified 91 for “marketing purposes”. Engineers don’t do that lol.
So, will my car be okay with the .50 spec oil? Sure. Will an LX be okay on 87 octane? Sure. Would I consider those cars well maintained with those things used? No. To me a car is well maintained when it is maintained to or beyond what is recommended by its designers.
It’s the additive package, the oils are also slightly different weights.
MB actually doesn’t specify a weight, only that spec.
On modern cars that hold a lot of oil and if you’re only going to keep it a certain length of time it’s fine.
I did 10k OCIs on the S560 because I figured I wouldn’t keep it. That big valve cover gasket repair I had was caused by “clogged oil separators” and my mechanic said 5k OCIs would have kept that from happening. I will do 5k OCIs on the S580. Both my LS460s I did 5K OCIs even though they specified 10k, I also used higher end than spec oi, I ran Schaefer’s 0W20 and Amsoil filtersl. On the Mercedes I use MB oil or Liqui Moly and the OEM MANN filter.
MB actually doesn’t specify a weight, only that spec.
On modern cars that hold a lot of oil and if you’re only going to keep it a certain length of time it’s fine.
I did 10k OCIs on the S560 because I figured I wouldn’t keep it. That big valve cover gasket repair I had was caused by “clogged oil separators” and my mechanic said 5k OCIs would have kept that from happening. I will do 5k OCIs on the S580. Both my LS460s I did 5K OCIs even though they specified 10k, I also used higher end than spec oi, I ran Schaefer’s 0W20 and Amsoil filtersl. On the Mercedes I use MB oil or Liqui Moly and the OEM MANN filter.
If it’s a boosted Toyota/Lexus, I may due shorter intervals but NA engine, nah. Let it ride!! It’s proven to work for me and none of our vehicles have extended warranties and have gone to the dealer for repair work.
My 230k mile Tundra had original serpentine belt and transmission and rear differential fluid never changed and I worked it whenever I hooked a trailer to it. With that being said I thought about changing the tranny and diff fluid on my current Tundra. If/when I add the blower I may do the fluids then.
07-16-24, 09:01 AM
#5779
Lexus Fanatic
They absolutely have a spec. 100%. It usually applies to all Japanese manufactures under a joint program
The spec for my 4Runner is ILSAC GF-5
The spec for my 4Runner is ILSAC GF-5
If I just wanted to get from Point A to Point B I wouldn’t spend what I spend on cars and I wouldn’t be a car enthusiast.
I change my oil every 10k miles on every vehicle I have except my track car, I change it every other track event. I’ve never had a problem. Heck I once went 15k miles between oil change on my old 08 Tundra. Still handled everything I threw at it. I do everything people post on the internet you’re not supposed to do to my vehicles (10k oil changes, run gas to empty) and it’s never given me any problems. My truck has about 2 gallons of gas left in it. The fuel pump is not going to die!!
On Mercedes and some other manufacturers I would probably follow maintenance to a tee, and I’m sure this may ruffle some feathers, because I don’t trust the reliability of Mercedes and few other brands like I trust Toyota/Lexus NA and hybrid vehicles. Plus maintenance seems to be more expensive on brands like Mercedes and others.
07-16-24, 11:07 AM
#5780
Lexus Fanatic
.52 isn’t the right spec for this car though. .51 is harder to find. Just have to order it online.
They don’t require a specific spec, just a specific weight. Toyota absolutely has a formulation that they created, TGMO (Toyota Genuine Motor Oil) is formulated by Mobil to Toyotas specs. There’s not a specific spec per engine they require though like the Germans.
They don’t require a specific spec, just a specific weight. Toyota absolutely has a formulation that they created, TGMO (Toyota Genuine Motor Oil) is formulated by Mobil to Toyotas specs. There’s not a specific spec per engine they require though like the Germans.
below is a third party oil that satisfies all of these specs.
TGMO (Toyota Genuine Motor Oil) is formulated by Mobil to Toyotas spec
Many Mercedes oil are backwards compatible as well. So a .52 can used as the replacement to .51
No matter how reliable a car is, it still needs to be well maintained. Skimping on maintenance reduces the life of a Toyota too.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-16-24 at 11:23 AM.
07-16-24, 11:30 AM
#5781
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Manufacturer oil specs, especially those from Mercedes and VW, can be very stringent with regards to makeup and performance characteristics. The bolded part is particularly disingenuous wording. Every single oil that carries the Mercedes 229.71 certification will also be ILSAC-GF-5. Because all truly excellent mid to low SAPS full synthetic motor oils also happen to be "motor oil suitable for use in a gasoline engine", and you chose an excellent, high-end oil. But only a teeny tiny percentage of ILSAC-GF-5 oils will meet the 229.71 standard.
07-16-24, 12:34 PM
#5783
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
A distinction without a difference. It's there solely so they can deny warranty claims when some idiot fills their crankcase with Great Value Vegetable Oil.
It's a bit like saying they have a spec for tires, because they recommend that you use only ones that are DOT-approved.
It's a bit like saying they have a spec for tires, because they recommend that you use only ones that are DOT-approved.
07-16-24, 01:05 PM
#5785
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
07-16-24, 01:16 PM
#5786
Lexus Fanatic
Because all requiring ILSAC-GF-5 really says is "Use motor oil that is approved for use in engines". Just like requiring DOT tires just means "use tires that are legal for public roads." Well yes of course you should do both of these things. In both cases, "meeting the spec" is a bar so low as to be utterly meaningless.
Every single oil that carries the Mercedes 229.71 certification will also be ILSAC-GF-5
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-16-24 at 01:29 PM.
07-16-24, 01:49 PM
#5787
Lexus Fanatic
All MB spec oils also meet that criteria, otherwise they wouldn’t be approved for use in gasoline engines.
Point is if I just roll in and choose any 0W20 on the shelf, I am compliant with Toyotas recommendation. That is not the case with Mercedes as it needs to be a certain weight and spec/additive package.
ILSAC GF-5 was first introduced in October 2010 as the minimum performance standard for use in gasoline-fueled engines in passenger cars.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-16-24 at 02:13 PM.
07-16-24, 02:51 PM
#5788
Lexus Fanatic
Not everything has to be a shot at Toyota.
07-16-24, 03:59 PM
#5789
Lexus Fanatic
but that is not the case. And not the point at all. There are numerous brands of 0W20 oil that are not compliant with the Toyota spec. And if you bought my 0W20 oil for my 21 4Runner you wouldn’t be compliant with the OW20 spec for the new Toyota Corolla GR.
Not everything has to be a shot at Toyota.
Not everything has to be a shot at Toyota.
It’s not a shot at Toyota at all, it’s just a fact. I don’t consider being able to use any oil a bad thing, it’s just an example of how German cars are more particular to maintain. The ease of maintenance and the compatibility of fluids and parts and all is a big plus for Toyota/Lexus.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-16-24 at 04:07 PM.
07-16-24, 04:43 PM
#5790
Lexus Fanatic
Thats not correct. Every motor oil sold in America is compliant with that spec. It’s the minimum spec for ALL gasoline engine oil. In fact it’s an outdated spec and was replaced in 2020 with ILSAC GF-6, but they are backwards compatible. So I can buy any 0W20 or 0W16 (many are 16 now) and be compliant with that spec. I can’t speak for the GR Corolla I don’t know if they do have a specific spec for that car but the spec you mentioned is a minimum spec for all oil, just google it.
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It’s not a shot at Toyota at all, it’s just a fact. I don’t consider being able to use any oil a bad thing, it’s just an example of how German cars are more particular to maintain. The ease of maintenance and the compatibility of fluids and parts and all is a big plus for Toyota/Lexus