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But the chain is a very unlikely repair on an RX350 while the timing belt needs to be done every 90k miles per spec.
You are literally the only person I have ever heard say that a Toyota timing chain has to be done on a 3.5 V6 in 150k miles, I mentioned that to my Lexus mechanic and he laughed, it’s just not true. The chain can and likely will last the life of the car
I've just seen enough of the GRs with stretched chains now around those miles it's a thing. People now have 12/13 year old GRs with spotty history and that kills chains. Just because he hasn't had to do any doesn't mean they don't fail.
The Toyota/Lexus badge doesn't make them immune to failure.....but they do allow far more stretch before setting the correlation code. Have your mechanic scope a few cars and compare them at 25/50/75/100/125/150k and it will be fairly obvious what the rate of wear is. It doesn't have to be done unless the hesitation is annoying/problematic or it sets a code, and Toyotas set it late.
This last one I did was BAD and the crank was over 12* off from the cams and there was active noise from the chain. Bad enough there was a power and response difference so dramatic the customer mentioned it unprompted.
It's just like the belts. Most ignore it until there is a problem, chains will last longer if maintained sure but they aren't immune and "lifetime" is the same as trans fluid "lifetime" while belts on the Toyotas are unusually strong.
I’m my family we have lots of 2GR engines with over 150k miles. No issues with timing chains….. including my uncles 2016 Tacoma with over 200k and my 2007 RX 350 with over 220k miles.
Can happen with bad maintenance - specifically the OCIs. Run with degraded oil (depleted aw/ep additives and/or just degraded base) and the chain will wear faster. Run with good oil and it shouldn't really wear. Hence why I was asking whether there's a correlation with varnish/"cleanliness", as this is also an indicator of the oil not being tip top - I do 10k km (6.6k mi) on mine, mostly sub-32km (20mi) trips one way and... my only indication is what I can see through the oil filler cap (incl. with a borescope), but I can't see any varnish - no noises beyond the very occasional vvt-i pressure buildup rattle either (i.e. won't rattle unless you run it for 1km and then stop and wait a few hours... and then it might).
As for the germans - BMW n47/n57. Enough said.
Anyways, this is indeed the only place where I've heard of Toyota/Lexus chains snapping, on any engine. Some people over here change them just becase "it should be done" (coming from some BMW/MB/VAG motors, usually). They get shuffled around (read: sold as "perfect) for ridiculously high oil consumption all the time, but chains... nope. I know of a case of a 2GR-FSE with disintegrated VVT-i actuators - literally bolts had come loose off the mechanism, somehow didn't dislodge/jam/otherwise damage anything in the timing case and the car stalled. funnily enough, would turn on again (with constant rattle), but the car would stall if you attempted to give it gas. Chains were OK.
Not necessarily, but even if they were the majority of those issues are in cars that are really old where they are drivable and serviceable and require no repair.
For instance my ES300 needs a timing belt, but it makes no sense to do it and I certainly would never replace the chain on the car if it had one because of a noise or hesitation.
This can be an issue with a poorly maintained car, but there is absolutely no evidence that it’s something that an owner who maintains their car is going to have to deal with after 140-150k miles. For the vast, vast majority of these cars a timing chain issue is just something that they will never deal with.
Can happen with bad maintenance - specifically the OCIs. Run with degraded oil (depleted aw/ep additives and/or just degraded base) and the chain will wear faster. Run with good oil and it shouldn't really wear. Hence why I was asking whether there's a correlation with varnish/"cleanliness", as this is also an indicator of the oil not being tip top - I do 10k km (6.6k mi) on mine, mostly sub-32km (20mi) trips one way and... my only indication is what I can see through the oil filler cap (incl. with a borescope), but I can't see any varnish - no noises beyond the very occasional vvt-i pressure buildup rattle either (i.e. won't rattle unless you run it for 1km and then stop and wait a few hours... and then it might).
As for the germans - BMW n47/n57. Enough said.
Anyways, this is indeed the only place where I've heard of Toyota/Lexus chains snapping, on any engine. Some people over here change them just becase "it should be done" (coming from some BMW/MB/VAG motors, usually). They get shuffled around (read: sold as "perfect) for ridiculously high oil consumption all the time, but chains... nope. I know of a case of a 2GR-FSE with disintegrated VVT-i actuators - literally bolts had come loose off the mechanism, somehow didn't dislodge/jam/otherwise damage anything in the timing case and the car stalled. funnily enough, would turn on again (with constant rattle), but the car would stall if you attempted to give it gas. Chains were OK.
This is the point I'm trying to make, as these are now old they no longer always get correct maintenance and it's showing that the chains are not immune to the same issues the other brands deal with. I have never seen a chain actually snap on anything though as it doesn't need to do so to allow issues or a dead engine in extreme cases.
People are paying a LOT for older Toyota and getting cars that cost them ever more on top of it in many cases and this was one of them. Rear axle on that car is also dying quickly, pure silver with some bits.....first time I've seen a Toyota axle have an issue.
This is the point I'm trying to make, as these are now old they no longer always get correct maintenance and it's showing that the chains are not immune to the same issues the other brands deal with. I have never seen a chain actually snap on anything though as it doesn't need to do so to allow issues or a dead engine in extreme cases.
People are paying a LOT for older Toyota and getting cars that cost them ever more on top of it in many cases and this was one of them. Rear axle on that car is also dying quickly, pure silver with some bits.....first time I've seen a Toyota axle have an issue.
Nothing lasts forever. A car that has been maintained well for 10 years won’t need a timing chain replacement because oil changes get sloppy, it would take another long period of time for that to happen.
Had I kept my LS460 I have no doubt I could have driven that car for 300k miles and never have any need to think about the timing chain.
Expecting any car including a Toyota to run forever is not a reasonable expectation, people have to have reasonable expectations.
The point is replacing the belt with a chain removed an expensive maintenance item for the vast majority of vehicle owners. People who don’t do oil changes on time aren’t going to pop for a timing belt at 90k miles either.
Nothing lasts forever. A car that has been maintained well for 10 years won’t need a timing chain replacement because oil changes get sloppy, it would take another long period of time for that to happen.
Had I kept my LS460 I have no doubt I could have driven that car for 300k miles and never have any need to think about the timing chain.
Expecting any car including a Toyota to run forever is not a reasonable expectation, people have to have reasonable expectations.
The point is replacing the belt with a chain removed an expensive maintenance item for the vast majority of vehicle owners. People who don’t do oil changes on time aren’t going to pop for a timing belt at 90k miles either.
That's true they won't, the car will also more than likely do 170-180k without blowing lol!
I don't expect it to run forever but people buy them at 2x the cost or more of comparable used cars and then get bit hard by reality. I'm finding/found out that buying normal mainstream cars used is utter hell. The stuff people do to their cars vs the high end used market is astounding and really showed my why used cars are looked down on so much! It's like people actively abuse the known reliables the worst.....
Took me 5 months to find a TDI that wasn't destroyed or priced insanely but I now know why the good ones were "insane", the sellers of the nice ones know how ragged out most are.
The point is replacing the belt with a chain removed an expensive maintenance item for the vast majority of vehicle owners.
Belts were used for two reasons...First, they are generally cheaper to produce than chains, and Second, engines tended to run a little quieter with them. But I agree with you.....they lacked a chain's durability, and, especially in transverse-mounted engines, could be a PITA to replace. It is usually much easier (and cheaper) with longitudinal engines, because you can usually access the belt without loosening the motor mounts and tilting the engine to get at it.
People who don’t do oil changes on time aren’t going to pop for a timing belt at 90k miles either.
Even with regular oil changes, a poorly-made chain is not necessary going to last. Some of them tend to stretch over time, which can throw the engine-timing off.
Later belts, as you note, could go to 90K....but for years, they had to be replaced at 55K. One of my ex-co-workers had a Subaru that broke a belt at 50K. And, of course, when belts broke on an interference-engine, you risked piston/valve contact, and major engine damage.
Belts were used for two reasons...First, they are generally cheaper to produce than chains, and Second, engines tended to run a little quieter with them. But I agree with you.....they lacked a chain's durability, and, especially in transverse-mounted engines, could be a PITA to replace. It is usually much easier (and cheaper) with longitudinal engines, because you can usually access the belt without loosening the motor mounts and tilting the engine to get at it.
In a Lexus its about the same cost FWD or RWD, I've had both done.
Even with regular oil changes, a poorly-made chain is not necessary going to last. Some of them tend to stretch over time, which can throw the engine-timing off.
Well sure, but we aren't talking about poorly made chains, we're talking about excellent quality chains in a Toyota/Lexus.
Back to my experience with the QX80 rental, got back into the Pacifica at the airport and immediately its so much lighter and easier to drive. I noticed it immediately in the parking garage...not as soft and quiet on the highway but tracks much better.
Nothing lasts forever. A car that has been maintained well for 10 years won’t need a timing chain replacement because oil changes get sloppy, it would take another long period of time for that to happen.
Had I kept my LS460 I have no doubt I could have driven that car for 300k miles and never have any need to think about the timing chain.
Expecting any car including a Toyota to run forever is not a reasonable expectation, people have to have reasonable expectations.
The point is replacing the belt with a chain removed an expensive maintenance item for the vast majority of vehicle owners. People who don’t do oil changes on time aren’t going to pop for a timing belt at 90k miles either.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Not necessarily, but even if they were the majority of those issues are in cars that are really old where they are drivable and serviceable and require no repair.
For instance my ES300 needs a timing belt, but it makes no sense to do it and I certainly would never replace the chain on the car if it had one because of a noise or hesitation.
This can be an issue with a poorly maintained car, but there is absolutely no evidence that it’s something that an owner who maintains their car is going to have to deal with after 140-150k miles. For the vast, vast majority of these cars a timing chain issue is just something that they will never deal with.
My Matrix hatchback was made on 2008 as a 2009 MY. 16 years on the road now, 170K miles on it.. no way am I gonna change the timing chain as preventive measure. Makes no sense
I never said to replace for no reason lol! I only said chains wear too, Toyota has good ones and they last the longest and it's helped by really really lax code trigger requirements.
For all y'all German haters here's some ammo lol! My 4.0 is acting up
Sent it too hard and it's having a rich code, guess I'm back to changing the map again and being easier on it.
01-27-24, 01:33 PM
