Kelvin2020

MB only sold around 280k this year (excluding the Van)

TangoRed

Mercedes sales have been way down from their potential the past couple of years. Both years they’ve had production issues effecting their most popular models. They really haven’t gotten their act together since the pandemic in regards to that. Add into the fact that they have no EVs in high volume price points yet besides the half assed EQB and it makes things worse.

Profit margin and ATP are as healthy as ever though.

EDIT: It’s also not going to get any better in 2024. Bosch is having major issues supplying the 48v battery in the new E-class, causing its launch date to be heavily delayed.

LexBob2

The different strategies for Lexus, MB and BMW each seem to be working.

SW17LS

As I have said before, as an enthusiast do I want to buy a car that they sell a ton of because its mainstream and cheap, or do I want a car that pushes the envelope and is truly excellent in some way? I just don't see how as an enthusiast I should be excited that Lexus sells a ton of cars because they are much cheaper than the German competition. The innovation and fresh products and cutting edge technology and performance has value to me. I can give a lot of that up, but I can't give up the design and presentation of the car AND that stuff. Something that is cheaper and also lesser is not a better value.

Remember that Lexus WAS #1 in sales for several years and that was when they were building cars that competed with the Germans, their ATPs are also WAY lower than MB and BMW, so from a profit perspective their gross profit on those sales is way lower, and they have considerably eroded the value of their brand. Is that smarter?

Felix

How many of those Mercedes & bmw's are leased vs purchased? I'd say more then half is not more......

swajames

Doesn't make the slightest difference. Each car, whether leased, financed or cash, only counts as a single sale on each manufacturer's scoreboard.

BMW in particular have turned this into an art form. They have a very effective strategy designed around getting the same cars and customers back every three years, driving repeat business and ensuring a constant supply of lease-return CPO vehicles. They make it easy to buy, easy to buy another after that, and their sales numbers reflect that. To a greater extent than anyone else their model is sell the same car at least twice while getting the customer into a new one, rinse and repeat.

spwolf

So do you care about sales or not?

I am not so sure Lexus is not super profitable, i would not make things up on profitability at TMC is very profitable and can't be because of Yaris.

Margate330

I say over 50% but just a guess.

SW17LS

I don’t care about sales no, I would like to see them make fewer better cars.

My point about sales figures is when they were making higher end cars they were also #1, the two don’t have to be exclusive.

It’s over 50% for all of them including Lexus, doesn’t matter.

703

Lexus strategy is not competing with German brands anymore. It’s just positioning itself as a premium brand. OK in everything but not exceptional, apart from best in class Hybrid drivetrain borrowed from Toyota. So if you look at it, it’s just a different exterior skin and interior skin and different equipment quality compared its Toyota counterparts. This is a very profitable business model from an R&D perspective. No longer will Lexus repeat R&D on the likes of the LS400 or LFA.

jwong77

I personally do not care about sales, nor do I care about profitability. I am not a TMC shareholder, but I have owned several Lexii in the past, and can say that the most important things for me were which car fit my needs and desires at the time. The things that you mention should really only be the concern of the C-Suite at TMC, not us the customers.

spwolf

i was replying to user post about profitability and sales.

Motorola

What's strange is that even when they have the technology to make a "premium" driving experience, they default to Toyota FWD anyway. Case in point...


Range, charging, and other weak EV attributes aside, Lexus had the perfect opportunity to create a proper RWD-biased driving experience. Instead, as Alex pointed out, for some utterly bonkers decision they put the more powerful motor at the front, making it effectively a FWD-biased car... despite the fact that EV motors don't have to work around a driveshaft or engine.

It's like they WANT to be known as Toyota+ as the brand identity.

703

pretty much just a highlander with an RX interior.

case in point Lexus no longer put much effort or money in R&D.

friends use to say i drive a dressed up Toyota, but now they are actually on point with all the modern mainstream Lexuses.