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Last I checked - Ford and GM still have V8s and introducing NEW models with those engines. They did some EVs to get the free money from uncle Sam and also need to meet emissions.
Mustang and Corvette are V8.
The new Shelby versions are coming.
ZR1 is coming / Zora
Ford also did Raptor R
Cadillac has the crazy CT5 Blackwing and Escalade V
That's a very surface level view of what's going on. They are indeed placing their V8s in very limited areas and they can do so since they aren't buying CAFE credits from Tesla, which is the whole reason Stellantis is moving in the direction that they are now. The Corvette is a V8 but of course sells in limited numbers (it being a 2 door sports car), Cadillac's CT5 Blackwing won't see a next generation and sells less than 1000 units a year as it is, and Ford isn't placing the V8 in any passenger cars except for the Mustang at all. Not even in Lincoln, their "luxury" brand. The Raptor R is just 30% of Raptor production too - V8s are fading no matter which way you slice it. To say that they "did some EVs to get free money from Uncle Sam" is hilarious when you look at how many EVs GM is slated to roll out within the next 3 years. These American leaders that are supposed to be so in touch at both Ford and GM are scrambling now to revise their plans and introduce more hybrids and bolster their ICE models. You're over here acting as if Stellantis is expecting all of their future sales to come from EVs when they've never publicly stated that to be the case in the U.S. except for Chrysler, which with its limited lineup will be supposedly only debuting EVs from 2028 on. The one thing Stellantis did say is that they only expect for 50% of its sales to be EV by 2030.
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
Stellantis first allocates its resources to the European brands while American brands get leftovers or rebadge like the Dodge Hornet which is clearly not for Americans.
I honestly can’t believe that you feel Stellantis is not Euro biased given their executive team. Imagine if it was 29 Americans and 6 Europeans - the American brands would get much more focus!
I always have an issue believing anything someone says without even pointing to an indicator that what they're saying has any bearing on reality. FCA had absolutely nothing in the pipeline for their American brands when Stellantis took over besides the Hornet and Hurricane I6 engine. Stellantis takes over, installs additional leadership for the NA brands, invests in the STLA Large and STLA Frame products, and begins a product rollout cadence. So you look at that and says they're investing in the Euro brands first and not the American brands? I just can't follow you.
As far as focus goes, you're essentially saying if Stellantis wasn't global than the majority of its resources would be on the American brands. Are you trying to acknowledge that they are focused on maintaining the health of all of their 14 brands? That much is obvious, but what's not obvious is that they're focusing on those brands first at the expense of the American ones because they have more Europeans on their leadership team than anything else. I find this silly because you haven't acknowledged the current state of any of those brands nor have you acknowledged the investments they've made and then compared them. Like I said before, if we were talking FCA and their moonshot Alfa investment and how the Giorgio platform was supposed to "trickle down" to Dodge which never materialized, then sure I'm right there with you. Haven't seen the same thing with Stellantis at all, especially given STLA Large is launching here first and the only Euro brand using it (Alfa) is coming after. It takes 4-5 years to develop a car from scratch and Stellantis was formed in January 2021...they're right on time with their immediate investments in American brands coming to fruition. Innovations like the Ram's range extender hybrid system that will also appear in the Wagoneer aren't born out of a lack of investment in one of their most important regions.
I think they look great, though I prefer the current Challenger and Charger wide body. These things are insanely heavy though. I hope we see some high power Hellcat/Demon level power or even higher than that.
That's a very surface level view of what's going on. They are indeed placing their V8s in very limited areas and they can do so since they aren't buying CAFE credits from Tesla, which is the whole reason Stellantis is moving in the direction that they are now. The Corvette is a V8 but of course sells in limited numbers (it being a 2 door sports car), Cadillac's CT5 Blackwing won't see a next generation and sells less than 1000 units a year as it is, and Ford isn't placing the V8 in any passenger cars except for the Mustang at all. Not even in Lincoln, their "luxury" brand. The Raptor R is just 30% of Raptor production too - V8s are fading no matter which way you slice it. To say that they "did some EVs to get free money from Uncle Sam" is hilarious when you look at how many EVs GM is slated to roll out within the next 3 years. These American leaders that are supposed to be so in touch at both Ford and GM are scrambling now to revise their plans and introduce more hybrids and bolster their ICE models. You're over here acting as if Stellantis is expecting all of their future sales to come from EVs when they've never publicly stated that to be the case in the U.S. except for Chrysler, which with its limited lineup will be supposedly only debuting EVs from 2028 on. The one thing Stellantis did say is that they only expect for 50% of its sales to be EV by 2030.
I always have an issue believing anything someone says without even pointing to an indicator that what they're saying has any bearing on reality. FCA had absolutely nothing in the pipeline for their American brands when Stellantis took over besides the Hornet and Hurricane I6 engine. Stellantis takes over, installs additional leadership for the NA brands, invests in the STLA Large and STLA Frame products, and begins a product rollout cadence. So you look at that and says they're investing in the Euro brands first and not the American brands? I just can't follow you.
As far as focus goes, you're essentially saying if Stellantis wasn't global than the majority of its resources would be on the American brands. Are you trying to acknowledge that they are focused on maintaining the health of all of their 14 brands? That much is obvious, but what's not obvious is that they're focusing on those brands first at the expense of the American ones because they have more Europeans on their leadership team than anything else. I find this silly because you haven't acknowledged the current state of any of those brands nor have you acknowledged the investments they've made and then compared them. Like I said before, if we were talking FCA and their moonshot Alfa investment and how the Giorgio platform was supposed to "trickle down" to Dodge which never materialized, then sure I'm right there with you. Haven't seen the same thing with Stellantis at all, especially given STLA Large is launching here first and the only Euro brand using it (Alfa) is coming after. It takes 4-5 years to develop a car from scratch and Stellantis was formed in January 2021...they're right on time with their immediate investments in American brands coming to fruition. Innovations like the Ram's range extender hybrid system that will also appear in the Wagoneer aren't born out of a lack of investment in one of their most important regions.
Most ppl in automotive world that I listened to agree that this is an epic failure for Dodge. You would think that they learned their lesson with failed Hornet.
I’m not sure why this is even a debate - this is the pathetic Dodge lineup:
- Dodge Hornet - already slowest selling car in US. Rebadging an Alfa made for Euro market doesn’t work.
- Dodge Charger EV - will be overpriced and overweight, can’t imagine selling in any meaningful volume.
- Dodge Durango - On its way out
Now lets take a look at Chrysler:
- Chrysler Pacifica - average minivan
So you have 4 low selling models over 2 BRANDS.
This is epic mismanagement and clear incompetence by Stellantis as they don’t understand the American consumer.
Now if i was head of Stellantis and actually cared just a bit about Dodge consumers and Dealers, here is what I would have done at launch:
Charger Base with Pentastar V6 - cheap volume model to keep dealers happy.
Charger R/T - inline 6 twin turbo
Charger EV - keep price down as much as possible.
Then later on:
Charger ScatPack - more powerful version of Inline 6
Charger Hellcat - V8 Hemi but in limited quantities per year
Charger Banshee - High powered EV to take on Model S
This would keep dealers happy selling base ICE version. Can you imagine training Dodge sales people and techs on EVs?!
It would also prevent all the negative press and social media coverage for getting rid of V8.
BMW which is a smart and successful company did this same thing that I proposed with launch of new 5 Series. Volume ICE models, full EV models and V8 M5 on the way to not fully **** off its loyal base.
Now lets take a look at Chrysler:
- Chrysler Pacifica - average minivan
So you have 4 low selling models over 2 BRANDS.
This is epic mismanagement and clear incompetence by Stellantis as they don’t understand the American consumer.
Um, the Pacifica isn't an average minivan. It's head and shoulders above the rest of the class, particularly the PHEV. Last year it sold almost as many units as all its competitors combined. And every single one of them is a newer design. That's pretty impressive.
Does Chrysler need more than a single model to survive as a brand? Most likely yes. But the one they've got is doing pretty well for them.
Um, the Pacifica isn't an average minivan. It's head and shoulders above the rest of the class, particularly the PHEV. Last year it sold almost as many units as all its competitors combined. And every single one of them is a newer design. That's pretty impressive.
Does Chrysler need more than a single model to survive as a brand? Most likely yes. But the one they've got is doing pretty well for them.
OK above average even BEST in the World lol
Minivans are not a growth sector and having 1 model is pathetic.
Just close down the brand, no need for the waste in resources/marketing, employees etc.
03-10-24, 08:46 PM
