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I think it’s just luck. They didn’t have a better crystal ball. It could have went the other way but they double down and is winning. Their share prices is trending the opposite of Tesla. Hence many commentators have said Toyotas have an anti Tesla strategy.
I have said many years ago here that Toyota should just focus on hybrids and let others invest, market and develop EVs. That is the most profitable strategy. So from a consumer perspective it’s simple - goto TMC for hybrids and elsewhere for EV. Simplicity works wonders.
Toyota has become a very risk adverse company. They will not invest in EV in any significant way unless there is a clear ROI. Hybrids are too profitable as the R&D is done.
CVTs have come a long way since the earliest ones used by Toyota....and the early ones used by Nissan that were unreliable junk. In fact, just a few years ago, Toyota itself introduced a CVT with a built-in conventional first-gear that starts the unit off from rest like a traditional automatic, and, once the vehicle gets rolling, switches to the belt-drive system in the CVT. That eliminates a lot of the motorboating/rubber-banding sensations you typically get with CVTs accelerating froma lower speeds. I sampled one of those newer Toyota CVTs in an upper-trim version of the Corolla few years ago, and noticed the difference.
Not really, the Toyota eCVT is still basically the same as its always been, its entirely different from what Nissan was using etc. What I don't like is the constant droning of the 4cyl hybrid Toyota vehicles. When I drove a Sienna for instance, it sounded and felt just like my 2004 Prius.
Now with that said, they are better with a V6 where you don't need high RPMs to get into usable engine power. I really like the PHEV powertrain with Toyota style eCVT in our Pacifica, but most around town driving is done in EV, and even when the battery is depleted acceleration doesnt require that long drone of high RPM like you get in a 4cyl hybrid.
For the PHEV that transitions between EV and ICE power, the CVT works better than a regular transmission IMO because the acceleration still feels similar. In that S580e PHEV I drove part of what felt so weird was having shifts in ICE power but not in EV power. Made the ICE use feel clunkier.
Personally, I won't buy an HEV, PHEV or EVs for me and in an ICE I prefer a transmission with gears.
What this horrible strategy is actually doing is cementing Toyota into a technology that is going to be replaced by true zero emissions vehicles. Toyota is doing the opposite of what they did with hybrids 25 years ago, think long term. This is a short term play that will have disastrous consequences. For me personally this ensures I will never buy a Toyota again.
1. Toyota was actually not as radical as you think in its hybrid introduction of Prius 2 decades back. In fact, Toyota as always took a cautious approach to hybridization. See Savage Geese:
Remember that Toyota also went electric on the Rav4 around the same time it pushed out the Prius, although that was discontinued (twice). Not sure why, but it probably noticed the hybrids sold better.
2. Toyota IS looking at the long term, and is looking at its entire customer population worldwide, many of whom are not able to go fully electric.
It does not think the current batteries will scale, and that resources (whether grid or battery materials) are too limited to move everyone to the current electrical types of cars, so it is looking al multiple approaches to carbon emission solutions.
That is, it is not being narrow-minded and too laser focused on a single solution that it thinks is not scalable to the worldwide population.
3. Toyota predicted that today's mass consumers (as opposed to early adopters and the relatively well off) would still be leery of jumping completely to full electric so quickly, and it seems their prediction was correct.
Even in China, which is hailed as the largest country going electric, the demand for hybrids (PHEVs and extended range hybrids) actually is growing faster than BEVs (72% growth vs 14%), although ICE cars still dominate sales.
4. Batteries are relatively inefficient in storing energy
This is especially relevant given that batteries store MUCH MUCH less energy than oil or Hydrogen. The mass-based energy density of batteries is in the range of 0.1 to 0.27 kWh/kg. In comparison, gasoline is 13 kWh/kg and hydrogen gas at 700 bars pressure has an energy density of 39.6 kWh/kg.
Do you honestly think all 8 billion people driving 1.5 BILLION cars in the world can go fully electric within a decade or so without substantial improvements in the electrical grid and substantially more production of limited materials (which is very damaging and polluting to mine as well)?
Well, they did try (or are trying) to push hydrogen, which is even MORE radical than battery driven cars. Probably due to the fact that hydrogen is significantly more energy dense than oil or batteries and can be scaled to meet the needs of the entire world.
Unfortunately, hydrogen not only lacks the infrastructure to serve it at this time, but you can't even plug it in from home! So it has twice the disadvantages of batteries.
Too bad they didn't make a gas/hydrogen hybrid...if that's even possible.
I would seriously buy one. I mean who can resist a car that "pees" water from its tailpipe lol
I think it’s just luck. They didn’t have a better crystal ball. It could have went the other way but they double down and is winning. Their share prices is trending the opposite of Tesla. Hence many commentators have said Toyotas have an anti Tesla strategy.
I have said many years ago here that Toyota should just focus on hybrids and let others invest, market and develop EVs. That is the most profitable strategy. So from a consumer perspective it’s simple - goto TMC for hybrids and elsewhere for EV. Simplicity works wonders.
Toyota has become a very risk adverse company. They will not invest in EV in any significant way unless there is a clear ROI. Hybrids are too profitable as the R&D is done.
I see.
TMC has done well past 12 months and past 5 years.
I think their hybrid strategy as a stop gap till alternative battery chemistries like solid state arrive is fine...
Hybrids are much of muchness. Not new, it’s just an evolution of a full ICE drivetrain.
i have owned more than 3 Lexus hybrids in the last 13 years and would not go back to any conventional ICE. It’s either hybrid or BEV.
The only thing different today is that it’s offered by Toyota and Lexus consistently across all models and you no longer have to drive a Prius.
I've owned a single hybrid for almost 15 years now (Prius), and when it came time to buy a new car, pure ICE was not an option anymore. It was another hybrid HEV or PHEV that had a higher ground clearance (at we go offroadish at times and the Prius kept hitting the ground or could not traverse some types of obstacles).
The HEV options were cheaper (Highlander, Grand Highlander, Rav4), but the PHEV won out even though I thought the price too high at the beginning.
And yes, Toyota is offering hybrid options for most models now, so the choices for someone who wants to go hybrid are much larger than in 2010. This makes it easier for people to transition to an electrified vehicle than being forced to choose one model or go full electric (whether BEV or FCEV). I think it's a good moderate strategy that should win out in the end.
My false claim or yours?
Petroleum doesn't have the same supply issues as rare earth metals.
Interestingly enough, it also seems to be cleaner to produce gas than Li ion batteries, at least using today's technology. This one I did not know before doing research.
Saying that, electrified vehicles still beat pure ICE cars over the full life cycle of the car when it comes to total pollution.
04-04-24, 06:57 PM
