What do you think about Toyota's strategy to move models to hybrid only?
04-05-24, 10:44 AM
#46
We need to think of hybrids as displacing conventional ICE, not EVs.
It’s not the right comparison to make to compare the growth of hybrids vs EV. It should be made in comparison to conventional ICE.
Over the last 13 years I have never thought once that my hybrids is even remotely “electrified” or “self charging”. It’s just a battery assisted engine which you still pump petrol into. What matters is the energy source not what’s under the hood.
It’s not the right comparison to make to compare the growth of hybrids vs EV. It should be made in comparison to conventional ICE.
Over the last 13 years I have never thought once that my hybrids is even remotely “electrified” or “self charging”. It’s just a battery assisted engine which you still pump petrol into. What matters is the energy source not what’s under the hood.
04-05-24, 11:45 AM
#47
Advanced
Thread Starter
We need to think of hybrids as displacing conventional ICE.
Over the last 13 years I have never thought once that my hybrids is even remotely “electrified” or “self charging”. It’s just a battery assisted engine which you still pump petrol into. What matters is the energy source not what’s under the hood.
Over the last 13 years I have never thought once that my hybrids is even remotely “electrified” or “self charging”. It’s just a battery assisted engine which you still pump petrol into. What matters is the energy source not what’s under the hood.
So what about PHEVs?
04-06-24, 05:34 PM
#48
scary graphs aside, lol, so if in 2023, 70% of 15.8% sales were BEVs that's 11%. so ice/hev were 'only' 89% of sales. 
the EV market needs a battery, cost, or charging/availability breakthrough to go from 'early adopter' phase to 'mainstream'. when camry/rav4/f150 buyers decide to buy ev's instead, it's happened.
keep doing that confirmation bias 'research' with bogus 'studies'.
the EV market needs a battery, cost, or charging/availability breakthrough to go from 'early adopter' phase to 'mainstream'. when camry/rav4/f150 buyers decide to buy ev's instead, it's happened.
keep doing that confirmation bias 'research' with bogus 'studies'.
Very rarely does technology take an instant leap instead things iterate. Which is exactly what we're seeing with battery tech and EV's since the Model S was released batteries now have higher density, way cheaper and charge faster. This curve will continue for at least another 10 years.
Yes, totally agree that EV must transition from Early Adopter Phase to Mainstream Phase.
Also agree that technology rarely takes an instant leap.
Back in 1999, the first digital camera in the Nikon D1 flagship @ $10,000 sold in only small niche numbers.
However, by 2003 the world's first mass produced dSLR in the Canon EOS 300D/Kiss Digital caused a massive spike in dSLR sales as dSLR's became mainstream!
In a similar way, with the world working hard to develop solid state batteries, a major breakthrough in alternative battery chemistries shouldn't be too far away, and will cause a similar spike to EV sales as the mainstream market shifts to EV's.
Meantime, I think TMC's hybrids are appropriately doing fine as a stop gap.
04-07-24, 02:16 AM
#50
Advanced
Thread Starter
https://scitechdaily.com/stanford-li...tric-vehicles/
But even then, I have a feeling a sizeable chunk of the public will still resist it, perhaps because of political ideology, tech anxiety, or other reasons. Thus, hybrids will be with us for a long time still.
04-07-24, 06:36 AM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
People will continue to resist it but when the right circumstances come along they will adopt it.
As an example, you had whole generations of people who refused to buy a Japanese car, but the circumstances at the time made it so those cars were just the smartest most economical purchases…and they bought them.
When an EV really is superior to an ICE car, people will buy them who said they never would.
As an example, you had whole generations of people who refused to buy a Japanese car, but the circumstances at the time made it so those cars were just the smartest most economical purchases…and they bought them.
When an EV really is superior to an ICE car, people will buy them who said they never would.
04-07-24, 07:03 AM
#52
Intermediate
Toyota's 1:6:90 rule
https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas...e-for-hybrids/
Given limited availability of critical mineral resources, is it better in the near term to take 90 ICE cars off the road and replace them with 90 hybrids or to use those resources to put just 1 BEV on the road?
Interesting arguments from Toyota. Of course, long term, the goal is to replace all transport with BEVs, but that progress is being severely slowed down by lack of critical mineral resources and reluctance of the masses to jump ship due to the usual complaints (range anxiety, lack of charging infrastructure, and high costs).
https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas...e-for-hybrids/
Given limited availability of critical mineral resources, is it better in the near term to take 90 ICE cars off the road and replace them with 90 hybrids or to use those resources to put just 1 BEV on the road?
Interesting arguments from Toyota. Of course, long term, the goal is to replace all transport with BEVs, but that progress is being severely slowed down by lack of critical mineral resources and reluctance of the masses to jump ship due to the usual complaints (range anxiety, lack of charging infrastructure, and high costs).
04-07-24, 07:52 AM
#53
Super Moderator
Toyota's 1:6:90 rule
https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas...e-for-hybrids/
Given limited availability of critical mineral resources, is it better in the near term to take 90 ICE cars off the road and replace them with 90 hybrids or to use those resources to put just 1 BEV on the road?
https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas...e-for-hybrids/
Given limited availability of critical mineral resources, is it better in the near term to take 90 ICE cars off the road and replace them with 90 hybrids or to use those resources to put just 1 BEV on the road?
04-07-24, 07:57 AM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
This is just Toyota trying to explain away why they are so far behind the 8 ball on EVs
"ItS a StRaTeGy!"
"ItS a StRaTeGy!"
04-07-24, 08:03 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Right now, but its about being set up for the future.
Let me ask you this, why didn't we hear about this strategy years ago? Why did Toyoda step down and allow younger people to take over specifically because he was not on top of EVs? Because this was not the strategy this is just them trying to frame their failures in this arena as being something they chose to do.
Let me ask you this, why didn't we hear about this strategy years ago? Why did Toyoda step down and allow younger people to take over specifically because he was not on top of EVs? Because this was not the strategy this is just them trying to frame their failures in this arena as being something they chose to do.
04-07-24, 08:23 AM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Let me ask you this, why didn't we hear about this strategy years ago? Why did Toyoda step down and allow younger people to take over specifically because he was not on top of EVs? Because this was not the strategy this is just them trying to frame their failures in this arena as being something they chose to do.
frame
Right now, but its about being set up for the future.
this above just hit the news just west of me. This is a problem Toyota just doesn’t have. This is a massive screw up by Ford
04-07-24, 08:31 AM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota has always maintained this strategy. They just never marketed the idea that one EV can make 90 hybrids. They do talk about this strategy a lot in engineer interviews and stuff like that. There was a member on here who used to talk about this over 10 years ago. I even challenged the member on the logic to that back then. Looks like it was right
04-07-24, 08:34 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Now, Toyota says the battery electrics will peak at 30% of the market. Do you agree with that?
again.. not having plant closures or slowdowns or layoffs is a good position to be in if you are Toyota
04-07-24, 08:52 AM
#60
Pit Crew
What puts the lie to this "rule" is that Tesla alone built and sold over 1.8M EVs last year--a little over half as many cars as the number of hybrids that Toyota sold. It's WAY past absurd to posit that they could have instead built and sold 163M Hybrids. That would mean ONE company replaced 11% of the world's vehicles with hybrids in just one year.