What do you think about Toyota's strategy to move models to hybrid only?
04-07-24, 05:36 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
You can't seriously expect us to move to hydrogen transport without knowing how much energy it will require. You must have some idea since you say hydrogen is viable but EVs are not. What if I told you it requires 2x the amount of electricity to move an H2 car the same distance as an EV would that change your mind?
Even the EPA mostly agrees
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=47283
This is generous to the Mirai IMO but still, a competing EV to the Mirai gets 125MPGe. At minimum an EV requires 40% less energy from the grid.
What about making hydrogen via electrolysis that won't be at peak times? Why not? What makes electrolysis special.
Even the EPA mostly agrees
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=47283
This is generous to the Mirai IMO but still, a competing EV to the Mirai gets 125MPGe. At minimum an EV requires 40% less energy from the grid.
Well, obviously they all won't be (literally) charging at once, but there will definitely be times of peak demand, particularly overnight, and if and when that is also combined with very hot or cold weather when many people are also using their electric furnaces or air conditioners non-stop, which takes a lot of energy, could overstrain the system.
BTW, I am not the only one to be concerned about this matter. It is becoming more and more recognized as a potential issue....even among the most avid supporters of BEVs.
BTW, I am not the only one to be concerned about this matter. It is becoming more and more recognized as a potential issue....even among the most avid supporters of BEVs.
04-07-24, 06:19 PM
#92
Lexus Test Driver
What do you think about Toyota's strategy to move models to hybrid only?
They are clearly making cars people want to buy.
When people stop buying them, I will start to worry for Toyota. Lol
04-07-24, 06:25 PM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
04-07-24, 06:29 PM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
Spoiler
….
04-07-24, 06:32 PM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
As with Hondas, many people still buy Toyotas today because of the nameplate and its past reputation...sometimes not thinking about what they are actually getting TODAY. Both brands, IMHO, built many of their best products in the 1990s....today they show a lot of cost-cutting in materials and design.
04-07-24, 07:00 PM
#96
Pit Crew
Only reason why EV is moving forward at all is because of the government, not free enterprise or market. Plenty of people would not be able to afford such cars if it wasn't for federal and state incentives.
04-07-24, 07:02 PM
#97
Lexus Fanatic
I hardly think the relatively small tax credits are making people able to afford EVs lol. It certainly doesn’t enter into my buying decisions.
04-07-24, 07:09 PM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
A smart company has a solution for each market. Where there a big government subsidies, offer the technology. Where there are no regulations, offer anything that sells. Try to build all your vehicles to share parts with each type of technology.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-07-24 at 07:14 PM.
04-07-24, 07:22 PM
#100
Advanced
Thread Starter
You can't seriously expect us to move to hydrogen transport without knowing how much energy it will require. You must have some idea since you say hydrogen is viable but EVs are not. What if I told you it requires 2x the amount of electricity to move an H2 car the same distance as an EV would that change your mind?.
1. It is better for reducing greenhouse gases vs batteries (see figure 1)
2. The specific energy of H2 is significantly greater than for any battery (see figure 3)
So as range increases, the weight of the battery pack increases significantly more than for H2. (see figure 4)
3. The energy density of H2 is significantly greater than any battery (see figure 5)
Therefore, the volume of battery space needed for any given range (and especially for longer ranges) is much greater than for H2 (see figure 6)
https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...icles-compared
04-07-24, 07:45 PM
#102
Lexus Fanatic
Actually, there are many advantages to H2 compared to batteries.
1. It is better for reducing greenhouse gases vs batteries (see figure 1)
2. The specific energy of H2 is significantly greater than for any battery (see figure 3)
So as range increases, the weight of the battery pack increases significantly more than for H2. (see figure 4)
3. The energy density of H2 is significantly greater than any battery (see figure 5)
Therefore, the volume of battery space needed for any given range (and especially for longer ranges) is much greater than for H2 (see figure 6)
https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...icles-compared
1. It is better for reducing greenhouse gases vs batteries (see figure 1)
2. The specific energy of H2 is significantly greater than for any battery (see figure 3)
So as range increases, the weight of the battery pack increases significantly more than for H2. (see figure 4)
3. The energy density of H2 is significantly greater than any battery (see figure 5)
Therefore, the volume of battery space needed for any given range (and especially for longer ranges) is much greater than for H2 (see figure 6)
https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...icles-compared
Anyway talking about H2 cars is ultimately pointless they've utterly failed in the marketplace.
04-07-24, 08:07 PM
#104
Lexus Fanatic
04-07-24, 08:41 PM
#105
Advanced
Thread Starter
https://www.fluxpower.com/blog/what-...um-ion-battery
Btw, the energy density of oil/gas is less than H2, and we already know battery cars today weigh more than their gasoline counterparts due to the weight of the battery.
I'll also point out another benefit of H2 is that the fuel cells gives much higher ranges, AND the fuel cells last the entire life of the car.
But yes, I do agree that the problem with H2 is that not only does it have the infrastructure problems of batteries, but it also can't be "charged" at home, so it's unlikely that it will make much headway in the light vehicle arena. We will be stuck in the foreseeable future with gas and batteries most likely.
It's probably in heavy vehicles and long range ones that hydrogen may shine.
Last edited by asj2024; 04-07-24 at 08:46 PM.