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Don't come at me with, "physics didn't change" therefore H2 is and will always be x amount better.
That's Wh per liter, not Wh per kg, and if you look right above, I did note the change. H2 still packs more energy per weight (260 vs 600), which is probably why batteries in cars are heavier than their gas model counterparts (H2 is even denser than gas). And the theoretical limit of the type of battery used today is 400 Wh/kg.
And that's the slowest Model 3. Now consider packaging on the Mirai it is severely compromised not to mention the car is very complex. And the tanks MUST be replaced every 7-10 years they become embrittled if not replaced they will fail.
Platforms compared.
Thankfully Toyota appears to have come to their senses are is pushing hybrids not the silly H2 car.
Toyota Mirai:
curb weight - 4,255 lbs
Model 3:
curb weight - 3,862 lbs
.
What about the term "model counterpart" do you not understand?
You have to control for many factors that are different between cars, and especially between different manufacturers.
For example, the Hyundai Kona has BOTH gas and electric versions, so in this case you can make valid comparisons.
In this case, the electric version weighs a very significant 700 pounds more than the gas version due to the very heavy battery, and the range is much less (by almost 150 miles!).
Hydrogen is around 3x more energy dense (Mj/kg) than gas.
New CBS vid about hybrids surging while BEV sales are down 7% so far this year, again highlighting the fact the Toyota bet paid off, and explaining why Toyota is continuing its hybrid facing actions.
As you can see, Lexus owners seem to like plugins more, with a higher growth rate and higher share of total sales for Toyota, and PHEVs beat BEVs in the lineup for both Toyota and Lexus.
In Q1 2024, the Toyota group sold 17,832 plug-in electric cars (up 94% year-over-year). The share out of the total volume improved to 3.2% (up from 2.0% a year ago).
Plug-in car sales in Q1'2024:
Toyota plug-ins: 13,571 (up 67%) and 2.8% share
BEVs: 1,897 (up 12%) and 0.4% share
PHEVs: 11,674 (up 82%) and 2.4% share
Lexus plug-ins: 4,261 (up 272%) and 5.4% share
BEVs: 1,603 (up 766%) and 2% share
PHEVs: 2,658 (up 177%) and 3.4% share
Total plug-ins: 17,832 (up 93%) and 3.2% share
BEVs: 3,500 (up 86%) and 0.6% share
PHEVs: 14,332 (up 94%) and 2.5% share
New CBS vid about hybrids surging while BEV sales are down 7% so far this year, again highlighting the fact the Toyota bet paid off, and explaining why Toyota is continuing its hybrid facing actions.
As you can see, Lexus owners seem to like plugins more, with a higher growth rate and higher share of total sales for Toyota, and PHEVs beat BEVs in the lineup for both Toyota and Lexus.
In Q1 2024, the Toyota group sold 17,832 plug-in electric cars (up 94% year-over-year). The share out of the total volume improved to 3.2% (up from 2.0% a year ago).
Plug-in car sales in Q1'2024:
Toyota plug-ins: 13,571 (up 67%) and 2.8% share
BEVs: 1,897 (up 12%) and 0.4% share
PHEVs: 11,674 (up 82%) and 2.4% share
Lexus plug-ins: 4,261 (up 272%) and 5.4% share
BEVs: 1,603 (up 766%) and 2% share
PHEVs: 2,658 (up 177%) and 3.4% share
Total plug-ins: 17,832 (up 93%) and 3.2% share
BEVs: 3,500 (up 86%) and 0.6% share
PHEVs: 14,332 (up 94%) and 2.5% share
I don’t see Toyota shuttering their assembly plants that make their cars. As sales for EV soften, I see that some brands are forcing plants slowdowns.
Agreed. And further to that, new Toyota's to me don't feel like Toyota's it's like I'm driving an imposter. But clearly most people don't agree with me.
Toyota is still making cars with the same quality from the 1990's. They just call it the Crown now.
As complexity increases reliability goes down it's inevitable. There is no way the high powered small displacement turbo engines are going to last as long as the naturally aspirated V6 and V8 engines of the past.
As complexity increases reliability goes down it's inevitable. There is no way the high powered small displacement turbo engines are going to last as long as the naturally aspirated V6 and V8 engines of the past.
Well, the fact that the most complex drivetrains of all (hybrids) usually rank among the most reliable disproves that theory.
The failure point I mentioned has nothing to do with they hybrid system I'm talking about boosted engines. I didn't bring up hybrid components at all.
But my point is that more complexity does not necessarily mean less reliability. Some of the crappiest engines ever built had no turbos at all. (e.g. Chevy Vega, Olds 5.7L diesel V8, Toyota 3.0L V6, and the numerous Hyundai/Kia engines that catch fire)
But my point is that more complexity does not necessarily mean less reliability. Some of the crappiest engines ever built had no turbos at all. (e.g. Chevy Vega, Olds 5.7L diesel V8, Toyota 3.0L V6, and the numerous Hyundai/Kia engines that catch fire)
I'll put it a different way. A naturally aspirated Toyota V6 with 270hp will be more reliable than a 270hp turbo 4-cylinder. Especially since Toyota owners are conditioned to being able to neglect maintenance and the car keeps going. You can't do that with a turbo engine long term.
04-07-24, 09:59 PM
