What do you think about Toyota's strategy to move models to hybrid only?
#121
I'll put it a different way. A naturally aspirated Toyota V6 with 270hp will be more reliable than a 270hp turbo 4-cylinder. Especially since Toyota owners are conditioned to being able to neglect maintenance and the car keeps going. You can't do that with a turbo engine long term.
A turbo is just like anything else in an engine.....the more (and harder) you use it, the more likely it is to wear out or fail. But you don't have to go around constantly boosting the engine...you can use a light foot.
#122
Thread got sidetracked.
New CBS vid about hybrids surging while BEV sales are down 7% so far this year, again highlighting the fact the Toyota bet paid off, and explaining why Toyota is continuing its hybrid facing actions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SthVni-l_Gc
And here is most recent news about the other type of hybrids , the plugins and BEVs in Toyota lineup:
Toyota U.S. Plug-In Car Sales Almost Doubled In Q1 2024
https://insideevs.com/news/715196/to...-sales-2024q1/
As you can see, Lexus owners seem to like plugins more, with a higher growth rate and higher share of total sales for Toyota, and PHEVs beat BEVs in the lineup for both Toyota and Lexus.
In Q1 2024, the Toyota group sold 17,832 plug-in electric cars (up 94% year-over-year). The share out of the total volume improved to 3.2% (up from 2.0% a year ago).
Plug-in car sales in Q1'2024:
Toyota plug-ins: 13,571 (up 67%) and 2.8% share
BEVs: 1,897 (up 12%) and 0.4% share
PHEVs: 11,674 (up 82%) and 2.4% share
Lexus plug-ins: 4,261 (up 272%) and 5.4% share
BEVs: 1,603 (up 766%) and 2% share
PHEVs: 2,658 (up 177%) and 3.4% share
Total plug-ins: 17,832 (up 93%) and 3.2% share
BEVs: 3,500 (up 86%) and 0.6% share
PHEVs: 14,332 (up 94%) and 2.5% share
New CBS vid about hybrids surging while BEV sales are down 7% so far this year, again highlighting the fact the Toyota bet paid off, and explaining why Toyota is continuing its hybrid facing actions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SthVni-l_Gc
And here is most recent news about the other type of hybrids , the plugins and BEVs in Toyota lineup:
Toyota U.S. Plug-In Car Sales Almost Doubled In Q1 2024
https://insideevs.com/news/715196/to...-sales-2024q1/
As you can see, Lexus owners seem to like plugins more, with a higher growth rate and higher share of total sales for Toyota, and PHEVs beat BEVs in the lineup for both Toyota and Lexus.
In Q1 2024, the Toyota group sold 17,832 plug-in electric cars (up 94% year-over-year). The share out of the total volume improved to 3.2% (up from 2.0% a year ago).
Plug-in car sales in Q1'2024:
Toyota plug-ins: 13,571 (up 67%) and 2.8% share
BEVs: 1,897 (up 12%) and 0.4% share
PHEVs: 11,674 (up 82%) and 2.4% share
Lexus plug-ins: 4,261 (up 272%) and 5.4% share
BEVs: 1,603 (up 766%) and 2% share
PHEVs: 2,658 (up 177%) and 3.4% share
Total plug-ins: 17,832 (up 93%) and 3.2% share
BEVs: 3,500 (up 86%) and 0.6% share
PHEVs: 14,332 (up 94%) and 2.5% share
All going to TMC's plans.
TMC's plan is to use gasoline-electric hybrids only as an intermediate "stop-gap" before mainstream EV's flood the market.
Like bitkahuna says, lithium ion powered EV's will only go so far to meet niche market early adopter needs, and lithium ion powered EV's are not meeting the needs of the mainstream market.
TMC never planned for lithium ion powered EV's to be a hit in the mainstream market.
However, TMC is the biggest investor in alternative battery chemistry especially solid-state battery patents!
Btw, only a state like California invests in massive hydrogen infrastructure.
Few other governments bother to invest in very expensive hydrogen infrastructure.
Furthermore, hydrogen in HFCEV's is very inefficient.
In the chart below, EV's have lost 31% energy efficiency.
While HFCEV's have lost between 77-81% of its energy efficiency!
NB
I see a few videos about Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engines HICEV's being better than both HFCEV's and EV's.
However, the truth is that not only must hydrogen be produced by non-fossil fuel means, plus mass storage and transportation infrastructure like HFCEV's above, but hydrogen chemistry stores very little energy per unit volume, hence motor vehicles would end up with "massive fuel tank" sizes, and this is not practical.
Hydrogen has similar energy per unit weight to gasoline, but hydrogen has very poor energy per unit volume!
Furthermore, since air is 80% nitrogen, the nitrogen reacts with hydrogen and oxygen to produce toxic nitric oxides NO's which means that hydrogen internal combustion engines HICEV's are no longer true zero emission vehicles.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-08-24 at 02:57 PM.
#124
4000 state.
https://chargeup.njcleanenergy.com/
Plus, NJ doesn't charge sales tax (6.75%) on EV cars.
If the car costs 50k, that's close to 14k in incentives.
#125
7500 federal.
4000 state.
https://chargeup.njcleanenergy.com/
Plus, NJ doesn't charge sales tax (6.75%) on EV cars.
If the car costs 50k, that's close to 14k in incentives.
4000 state.
https://chargeup.njcleanenergy.com/
Plus, NJ doesn't charge sales tax (6.75%) on EV cars.
If the car costs 50k, that's close to 14k in incentives.
I'm considering an EV right now and there are zero tax incentives available for me, the vehicle is too expensive and even if it weren't my income is too high.
#126
Thats unique to NJ, buyers in other states don't have that sort of credit available. The $7,500 tax credit is only on a very limited number of vehicles now and it bound by vehicle price and by income.
I'm considering an EV right now and there are zero tax incentives available for me, the vehicle is too expensive and even if it weren't my income is too high.
I'm considering an EV right now and there are zero tax incentives available for me, the vehicle is too expensive and even if it weren't my income is too high.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l#post11702622
#127
In my original post, I mentioned certain states incentives are driving folks to go EV.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l#post11702622
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l#post11702622
The most the majority of buyers can hope to receive in incentives is $7,500, and thats been the case throughout the last few years with the explosive growth of EVs, and the list of vehicles that qualify for that have gotten smaller and smaller.
#129
Sales of hybrids magnificent.
All going to TMC's plans.
TMC's plan is to use gasoline-electric hybrids only as an intermediate "stop-gap" before mainstream EV's flood the market.
Like bitkahuna says, lithium ion powered EV's will only go so far to meet niche market early adopter needs, and lithium ion powered EV's are not meeting the needs of the mainstream market.
TMC never planned for lithium ion powered EV's to be a hit in the mainstream market.
However, TMC is the biggest investor in alternative battery chemistry especially solid-state battery patents!
Btw, only a state like California invests in massive hydrogen infrastructure.
Few other governments bother to invest in very expensive hydrogen infrastructure.
Furthermore, hydrogen in HFCEV's is very inefficient.
In the chart below, EV's have lost 31% energy efficiency.
While HFCEV's have lost between 77-81% of its energy efficiency!
NB
I see a few videos about Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engines HICEV's being better than both HFCEV's and EV's.
However, the truth is that not only must hydrogen be produced by non-fossil fuel means, plus mass storage and transportation infrastructure like HFCEV's above, but hydrogen chemistry stores very little energy per unit volume, hence motor vehicles would end up with "massive fuel tank" sizes, and this is not practical.
Hydrogen has similar energy per unit weight to gasoline, but hydrogen has very poor energy per unit volume!
Furthermore, since air is 80% nitrogen, the nitrogen reacts with hydrogen and oxygen to produce toxic nitric oxides NO's which means that hydrogen internal combustion engines HICEV's are no longer true zero emission vehicles.
https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=EQzU6N2pQlJtjcZ4
All going to TMC's plans.
TMC's plan is to use gasoline-electric hybrids only as an intermediate "stop-gap" before mainstream EV's flood the market.
Like bitkahuna says, lithium ion powered EV's will only go so far to meet niche market early adopter needs, and lithium ion powered EV's are not meeting the needs of the mainstream market.
TMC never planned for lithium ion powered EV's to be a hit in the mainstream market.
However, TMC is the biggest investor in alternative battery chemistry especially solid-state battery patents!
Btw, only a state like California invests in massive hydrogen infrastructure.
Few other governments bother to invest in very expensive hydrogen infrastructure.
Furthermore, hydrogen in HFCEV's is very inefficient.
In the chart below, EV's have lost 31% energy efficiency.
While HFCEV's have lost between 77-81% of its energy efficiency!
NB
I see a few videos about Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engines HICEV's being better than both HFCEV's and EV's.
However, the truth is that not only must hydrogen be produced by non-fossil fuel means, plus mass storage and transportation infrastructure like HFCEV's above, but hydrogen chemistry stores very little energy per unit volume, hence motor vehicles would end up with "massive fuel tank" sizes, and this is not practical.
Hydrogen has similar energy per unit weight to gasoline, but hydrogen has very poor energy per unit volume!
Furthermore, since air is 80% nitrogen, the nitrogen reacts with hydrogen and oxygen to produce toxic nitric oxides NO's which means that hydrogen internal combustion engines HICEV's are no longer true zero emission vehicles.
https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=EQzU6N2pQlJtjcZ4
But then dismisses it because the energy loss to then separate the H2 from the solid- but this is where the gains in research will be.
Reason why is because the bond will be ionic and the solid should be a salt and further advancements in a catalyst for the reaction will make bulky tanks not needed anymore because the energy to pull the H2 from the salt will be miniscule and the salt will be a solid.
The H2 combustion is a dead end.
The fuel cell with raw electric output should be the goal(and probably is).
I suspect the H2 combustion was only supposed to be a stop gap, similar to batteries.
Just my theories and ideas so don't shoot me. Lol
#130
H2 is essentially a battery because the gas does not exist naturally in any meaningful quantity.* By volume hydrogen is 0.000055% of our atmosphere the rest is trapped in a molecular bond.
* I know hydrogen is the most abundant thing in the universe this is meaningless. There are asteroids out there that contain 100's of tons of gold just as useless, existing doesn't mean available.
* I know hydrogen is the most abundant thing in the universe this is meaningless. There are asteroids out there that contain 100's of tons of gold just as useless, existing doesn't mean available.
#131
I'll put it a different way. A naturally aspirated Toyota V6 with 270hp will be more reliable than a 270hp turbo 4-cylinder. Especially since Toyota owners are conditioned to being able to neglect maintenance and the car keeps going. You can't do that with a turbo engine long term.
#132
The H2 combustion is a dead end.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-08-24 at 06:31 PM.
#133
People have been chasing silence with ICEs forever, finally achieve silence with an EV and now silence is boring!
#134
There are all kinds of different experiences. Quiet is harder to do in an EV than it is in a ICE so it costs the manufacturers more $$ which just means the buyer pays more
#135
Nothing enjoyable about the 4 cyl engine found in most cars, or even V6s. V8s and I6s have nice smooth and linear power and they often feel and sound nice...but even them give me the EV in a daily car.
In our PHEV the drive is much more enjoyable when that V6 stays off.