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No doubt, I have said that in this thread. The QX80 has been an ancient vehicle forever and is just now being replaced by something which may be compelling. Genesis is way ahead of Infiniti, which when you think about how Infiniti has been around for 35 years is pretty sad.
May be compelling? It's more compelling than Genesis' entire range.
Infiniti is also in the process of CLOSING their standalone dealers and merging with Nissan. All the Infiniti dealers here are now combined with Nissan dealers.
Genesis is on the upswing, Infiniti is in a huge slide.
I can easily find showrooms service centers and parts for Nissans and Infiniti's here. Can't say the same for HMG.
Have you driven them both? I have. The CX-90's I6 doesn't feel particularly smoother in actual use, and everything about the GV80 is superior as it should be given the price difference. GV80s don't have a lot of problems at all, I do watch their forums. Genesis is neck and neck with Lexus in terms of initial quality and vehicle dependability.
You actually lost me with your last sentence. They're not even in the same stratosphere as Infiniti reliability wise let alone Lexus. Never driven a Genesis but was a passenger in a new GV70 3.5T. I can vouch for the other guy. Didn't like how it rode nor did I feel it was smooth. I preferred how the CX-90 drove.
Seeing that the growth is in CUVs and not sedans, that makes total sense.
The G80 and G90 are both excellent vehicles that Infiniti has no competitors for, and the Q50 is ancient, so I don't see where you are coming from at all.
So is the G70 and the Q50 is better. TMC has an answer in the Crown/LS. The new ES with new powertrains and full-time AWD will also compete with the G80 (the turbo 4 hybrid setup mitigates the FWD feel, and will actually be more spacious and more fuel efficient). Also pending the new Mazda6.
But its transverse/FWD, if you are an enthusiast like me thats a non starter. I would only consider the QX60 as a family car my wife would primarily drive, I would never consider one over a GV80 which is a proper RWD setup with multilink suspension etc. QX60 is an RX/TX competitor while the GV80 is an X5/GLE competitor.
The Touareg and all the SUVs based on it are on a longitudinal FWD platform that is mitigated by a rear biased AWD system. The proportions give them away yet people still buy them anyways. And transverse FWD gives you the most space and fuel efficiency so it's not like there aren't pros to this approach.
The Ariya is a Nissan, which I have no interest in.
So is the GT-R. So is the Nissan Patrol. Not sure what's the problem here.
All the points have already been addressed by Steve and others, but claiming that Infiniti is more reliable than Genesis or Hyundai is hilarious and a denial of reality.
What does it say about Infiniti when the brand new generation Genesis 1st-year models introduced in 2021, the GV80 and G80, even with typical first year teething issues, are more reliable than Infiniti's entire aging, mediocre lineup?
May be compelling? It's more compelling than Genesis' entire range.
If thats the kind of vehicle you are looking for. The QX80 competes with the LX600 and the real options in that range, the Escalade and the Navigator plus unibody options like the GLS and X7. I am confident the QX80 won't be a sales threatener to any of those cars.
I can easily find showrooms service centers and parts for Nissans and Infiniti's here. Can't say the same for HMG.
Plenty of Hyundai and Genesis dealers here.
You actually lost me with your last sentence. They're not even in the same stratosphere as Infiniti reliability wise let alone Lexus. Never driven a Genesis but was a passenger in a new GV70 3.5T. I can vouch for the other guy. Didn't like how it rode nor did I feel it was smooth. I preferred how the CX-90 drove.
Except that isn't true, look at the stats Genesis is rated very highly, some years even above Lexus. Infiniti and Nissan are always below average
Easy to dismiss something you have never driven. The GV70 is a much smaller vehicle. The CX-90 is okay, but I wasn't wowed by it at all.
TMC has an answer in the Crown/LS. The new ES with new powertrains and full-time AWD will also compete with the G80 (the turbo 4 hybrid setup mitigates the FWD feel, and will actually be more spacious and more fuel efficient). Also pending the new Mazda6.
No FWD car can compete as a peer with a RWD car. The LS is not the crown, totally different cars, Crown is FWD...G90 blows the LS away (and I owned 4 LSs). Mazda wont be considered by any luxury consumers.
Without any first hand experience with the brand this sounds like all bias on your end. Go drive some and have an open mind.
And transverse FWD gives you the most space and fuel efficiency so it's not like there aren't pros to this approach.
For a driving appliance I want space efficiency, in a luxury vehicle I want the best performance I can get and thats not a transverse FWD vehicle. Ive had that and I want more out of a car at this point
If thats the kind of vehicle you are looking for. The QX80 competes with the LX600 and the real options in that range, the Escalade and the Navigator plus unibody options like the GLS and X7. I am confident the QX80 won't be a sales threatener to any of those cars.
It has the hardware to compete with the best of them so we'll see.
Except that isn't true, look at the stats Genesis is rated very highly, some years even above Lexus. Infiniti and Nissan are always below average
In no universe is a HMG product more reliable than any TMC product. They had and continue to have the biggest blunders in the automotive scene. Nissan models that aren't equipped with the CVT (although in recent years have gotten more reliable) are dead reliable. Look at their BOF or performance/luxury products. The Nissan Patrol is renowned for its capability and reliability globally. And take a look at this article from CR.
Easy to dismiss something you have never driven. The GV70 is a much smaller vehicle. The CX-90 is okay, but I wasn't wowed by it at all.
But I've been driven in one and drove the CX-90. I preferred the 90's drivetrain and Mazda will continue to hone and build up their image with more luxury and performance models coming.
No FWD car can compete as a peer with a RWD car. The LS is not the crown, totally different cars, Crown is FWD...G90 blows the LS away (and I owned 4 LSs). Mazda wont be considered by any luxury consumers.
I meant the Crown sedan. The Crown cross would be more of a G80 competitor (again batteries and electric motors mitigate the FWD base). According to Jason Cammisa the LS hybrid drives much better than the G90 and actually kept up pretty well with it in a drag race (now imagine the TTV6 model). Also buyers ARE considering large product platform Mazdas over traditional luxury products. And to an extent the MX-5 is cross shopped with luxury performance products.
For a driving appliance I want space efficiency, in a luxury vehicle I want the best performance I can get and thats not a transverse FWD vehicle. Ive had that and I want more out of a car at this point
Performance CUVs will never match performance sedans/sports cars. Also you can mitigate FWD with batteries and electric motors or AWD systems like Toyota/Volkswagen is doing.
As a former G35 owner, I will say Infiniti is a complete joke these days. The new QX60 was a decent effort and the upcoming QX80 looks better, so hopefully they are turning it around.
That said, there is not a single Infiniti I like better than my least favorite Genesis.
Mazda is another brand that can't compete with Genesis, and who knows if they will even make an upcoming Mazda6. The CX90 has been a sales dud and the CX70 has no redeeming marketplace value. It's one of the most illogical products ever made.
In no universe is a HMG product more reliable than any TMC product. They had and continue to have the biggest blunders in the automotive scene. Nissan models that aren't equipped with the CVT (although in recent years have gotten more reliable) are dead reliable. Look at their BOF or performance/luxury products. The Nissan Patrol is renowned for its capability and reliability globally. And take a look at this article from CR.
Even the CR link you posted has both Hyundai and Kia ranked higher than Nissan and Infiniti for reliability. Why bother arguing if you're just going to argue from a different "universe" lol.
Mazda is another brand that can't compete with Genesis, and who knows if they will even make an upcoming Mazda6. The CX90 has been a sales dud and the CX70 has no redeeming marketplace value. It's one of the most illogical products ever made.
Mazda is not supposed to compete with Genesis. Genesis is in the luxury/premium class...Mazda is a mainstream manufacturer....and competes with Hyundai.
As a former G35 owner, I will say Infiniti is a complete joke these days.
Totally agree.
I loved my G35 and I really liked my G37. They were both very reliable cars but the brand is a mess and unappealing. I always felt that name change in 2014/2015 to Q/QX for the entire lineup was damaging.
This upcoming QX80 will be a lukewarm sales success at best.
Infiniti had some magnificent cars up until 2010. How the brand managed to screw it all up since is one for the history books.
Reminds me of Saturn. They were a huge success in the 1990s with customer-friendly policies and the S-series plastic-bodied compacts, then GM's management royally screwed them up after 2000.
It has the hardware to compete with the best of them so we'll see.
We'll see. The outgoing QX80 was not compelling, I rented one for a week.
In no universe is a HMG product more reliable than any TMC product. They had and continue to have the biggest blunders in the automotive scene. Nissan models that aren't equipped with the CVT (although in recent years have gotten more reliable) are dead reliable. Look at their BOF or performance/luxury products. The Nissan Patrol is renowned for its capability and reliability globally. And take a look at this article from CR.
Look at the stats...
\But I've been driven in one and drove the CX-90. I preferred the 90's drivetrain and Mazda will continue to hone and build up their image with more luxury and performance models coming.
And I have driven all of them lol. Hard to experience a car or the drivetrain when you aren't driving it.
Mazda is not a luxury carmaker and never will be. Its an economy/mainstream company that makes some very compelling cars but its no comparison to Genesis.
I meant the Crown sedan. The Crown cross would be more of a G80 competitor (again batteries and electric motors mitigate the FWD base). According to Jason Cammisa the LS hybrid drives much better than the G90 and actually kept up pretty well with it in a drag race (now imagine the TTV6 model). Also buyers ARE considering large product platform Mazdas over traditional luxury products. And to an extent the MX-5 is cross shopped with luxury performance products.
The Crown sedan is unrelated to the LS, batteries and motors do not at all mitigate the FWD base. Jason Cammisa is wrong, the LS hybrid doesn't drive as well as the TTV6 LS let alone the G90, G90 rides much better, is much quieter inside, much higher quality interior with much better room. I don't have to imagine driving them, I have driven all of them. I'm a huge LS fan and it pains me to say it, but the LS is a shell of what it once was. I wouldn't even consider an LS500 compared to a G90.
From C&D, G90 is their #2 pick in the segment, LS is #7...
As for buyers considering Mazdas over luxury marques, Mazda likes to pretend they are but I see no evidence of that. The CX-90 is struggling in sales and I have started seeing a lot of them in rental fleets.
MX-5 is not cross shopped with luxury products lol
Also you can mitigate FWD with batteries and electric motors or AWD systems like Toyota/Volkswagen is doing
No, you can't. You can't beat physics, and its not just the FWD architecture its also the economy machpherson strut suspensions and the low rent architecture the FWD Lexus products are on. Genesis vehicles are all on proper bespoke RWD platforms with proper DW and multilink front suspensions that deliver a much more sophisticated car.
May be compelling? It's more compelling than Genesis' entire range.
I can easily find showrooms service centers and parts for Nissans and Infiniti's here. Can't say the same for HMG.
You actually lost me with your last sentence. They're not even in the same stratosphere as Infiniti reliability wise let alone Lexus. Never driven a Genesis but was a passenger in a new GV70 3.5T. I can vouch for the other guy. Didn't like how it rode nor did I feel it was smooth. I preferred how the CX-90 drove.
So is the G70 and the Q50 is better. TMC has an answer in the Crown/LS. The new ES with new powertrains and full-time AWD will also compete with the G80 (the turbo 4 hybrid setup mitigates the FWD feel, and will actually be more spacious and more fuel efficient). Also pending the new Mazda6.
The Touareg and all the SUVs based on it are on a longitudinal FWD platform that is mitigated by a rear biased AWD system. The proportions give them away yet people still buy them anyways. And transverse FWD gives you the most space and fuel efficiency so it's not like there aren't pros to this approach.
So is the GT-R. So is the Nissan Patrol. Not sure what's the problem here.
What Touareg are you talking about? The current garbage or the real ones?
Mazda is not supposed to compete with Genesis. Genesis is in the luxury/premium class...Mazda is a mainstream manufacturer....and competes with Hyundai.
Exactly my point - they should not be compared, and definitely Mazda should not be considered better.
04-08-24, 11:49 AM
