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We'll see. The outgoing QX80 was not compelling, I rented one for a week.
Yes because it's so old. A few years ago it was the standard in its class. Its HBMC suspension is the most advanced suspension on any off-roader.
Look at the stats...
What "stats"? JDPower is an absolute meme. CR has a clearer methodology and seems to be consistent enough but I still take their rankings with a grain of salt. This year they ranked Infiniti way ahead of Genesis. So there is credibility in me saying Infiniti is more reliable. Actually you would know this if you were a car "enthusiast". Context is key. You'd rarely find Nissan BOF products/RWD/sports cars listed in the cars tested for reliability. But those are their most reliable products.
And I have driven all of them lol. Hard to experience a car or the drivetrain when you aren't driving it.
Sure we all have different tastes/experience things differently.
Mazda is not a luxury carmaker and never will be. Its an economy/mainstream company that makes some very compelling cars but its no comparison to Genesis.
They did actually make luxury JDM cars. Also I can literally say the same thing about Genesis compared to the Germans.
The Crown sedan is unrelated to the LS, batteries and motors do not at all mitigate the FWD base. Jason Cammisa is wrong, the LS hybrid doesn't drive as well as the TTV6 LS let alone the G90, G90 rides much better, is much quieter inside, much higher quality interior with much better room. I don't have to imagine driving them, I have driven all of them. I'm a huge LS fan and it pains me to say it, but the LS is a shell of what it once was. I wouldn't even consider an LS500 compared to a G90.
They're both on GA-L. Drive one of the new Toyotas or Lexus' with E-Four Advanced/Direct4 compared to a FWD spec. It's literally a night and day difference. Yes, I'll ignore the established automotive journalist that's had more time on the track than both of us and take your word of it. The G90 with its mild-hybrid assisted electrically supercharged TTV6 barely beat the N/A multi-stage hybrid V6 through the quarter mile. I'm quite afraid at what the TTV6 LS would do to the G90. Yes, the 5LS has been a flop but it's still better than the G90 if you're actually an "enthusiast". Jason isn't the only one who praised the LS' handling chops.
From C&D, G90 is their #2 pick in the segment, LS is #7...
Sure sure it's better than the 7-series
As for buyers considering Mazdas over luxury marques, Mazda likes to pretend they are but I see no evidence of that. The CX-90 is struggling in sales and I have started seeing a lot of them in rental fleets.
The CX-90 has actually been doing very well for them. And the CX-60 is often compared to the X3 and the likes.
MX-5 is not cross shopped with luxury products lol
You can find it cross shopped vs Lotuses and Porsches lol
No, you can't. You can't beat physics, and its not just the FWD architecture its also the economy machpherson strut suspensions and the low rent architecture the FWD Lexus products are on. Genesis vehicles are all on proper bespoke RWD platforms with proper DW and multilink front suspensions that deliver a much more sophisticated car.
If cars were all about spec sheets then test drives would be irrelevant. But they're not. The RX and ES ride better than about every Genesis.
Yes because it's so old. A few years ago it was the standard in its class. Its HBMC suspension is the most advanced suspension on any off-roader.
That vehicle was never a standard in its class lol
They're both on GA-L. Drive one of the new Toyotas or Lexus' with E-Four Advanced/Direct4 compared to a FWD spec. It's literally a night and day difference. Yes, I'll ignore the established automotive journalist that's had more time on the track than both of us and take your word of it. The G90 with its mild-hybrid assisted electrically supercharged TTV6 barely beat the N/A multi-stage hybrid V6 through the quarter mile. I'm quite afraid at what the TTV6 LS would do to the G90. Yes, the 5LS has been a flop but it's still better than the G90 if you're actually an "enthusiast". Jason isn't the only one who praised the LS' handling chops.
Nothing GA-L is FWD based. The Crown is not GA-L, it’s GA-K same as the new RX. You cannot do away with the physical differences between a FWD transverse car and a RWD car.
Drive them yourself. The LS500 is a good handler but a lousy riding luxury sedan, surprisingly loud and cramped inside, this segment isn’t about handling it’s about space, refinement quality and comfort. The LS500 would have made a good successor to the GS (which I also had) but it’s a lousy LS. None of these cars belong on any track lol
Sure sure it's better than the 7-series
Have you driven either car?
Im negotiating deals on 7 Series right now, and when you take price into consideration I can see the argument 100% why it could be considered better. It’s a seriously impressive car. If it had a V8 I would seriously consider one.
The CX-90 has actually been doing very well for them. And the CX-60 is often compared to the X3 and the likes.
LOL! Gotta show me that. The CX60 isn’t even out, and when it was announced it became a huge joke in the industry and people thought they were being punked because it’s identical to the CX90 without a third row seat.
You can find it cross shopped vs Lotuses and Porsches lol
LOL! Ask some Porsche and Lotus owners if they considered an MX-5
If cars were all about spec sheets then test drives would be irrelevant. But they're not. The RX and ES ride better than about every Genesis.
Says the guy who has never driven any of the cars we are talking about. I have driven all of them and owned many of them, you are totally wrong. The ES and RX ride and drive nothing like a G80, GV-80 or obviously a G90. Those cars are much more sophisticated with better suspensions than the Mac strut/Toyota style suspensions the ES and RX have.
Interesting how Mr. Eren is ignoring everyone else's responses to him and just focusing on Steve. I would really love to live in his alternate universe where Nissan is the bastion of reliability and desirability and people cross-shop Mazda with Lotus lol
Yes, I'll ignore the established automotive journalist that's had more time on the track than both of us and take your word of it.
Sure sure it's better than the 7-series
So let me get this straight, you appeal to authority the established automotive journalist opinions, and then in the very next paragraph you contradict that and call them baloney?
Says the guy who has never driven any of the cars we are talking about. I have driven all of them and owned many of them, you are totally wrong. The ES and RX ride and drive nothing like a G80, GV-80 or obviously a G90. Those cars are much more sophisticated with better suspensions than the Mac strut/Toyota style suspensions the ES and RX have.
That's really what it all comes down to. My coworker, who doesn't know much about cars, traded her 3 series for an ES and almost immediately after the purchase realized she had bought a car that does not handle nearly as sporty as the car she traded.
FWD platforms absolutely shouldn't be taken seriously in the luxury or performance space. It was one of the deal breakers for me on the Continental, despite all the things Lincoln did get right on that car. When a luxury automaker offers you an FWD product, it screams that they didn't really want to put any effort into it, but just threw some leather and glossier materials into an existing(read: cheap) product and changed its name.
That vehicle was never a standard in its class lol
The Patrol certainly set the standard for its segment back in 2010 and the QX80 (QX56 back then) was largely the same (more luxury less off-road hardware).
Nothing GA-L is FWD based. The Crown is not GA-L, it’s GA-K same as the new RX. You cannot do away with the physical differences between a FWD transverse car and a RWD car.
I'm talking about this:
Drive them yourself. The LS500 is a good handler but a lousy riding luxury sedan, surprisingly loud and cramped inside, this segment isn’t about handling it’s about space, refinement quality and comfort. The LS500 would have made a good successor to the GS (which I also had) but it’s a lousy LS. None of these cars belong on any track lol
So it does drive better. If you wanna talk refinement the G90's drivetrain is inferior. There is really nothing special about the G90. OTOH the craftsmanship in the LS is 2nd to none in its class. Just take a look at the Haku trim interior.
Have you driven either car?
Im negotiating deals on 7 Series right now, and when you take price into consideration I can see the argument 100% why it could be considered better. It’s a seriously impressive car. If it had a V8 I would seriously consider one.
I don't need to. You're not even seriously considering the G90 while negotiating deals for the 7 series yourself.
LOL! Gotta show me that. The CX60 isn’t even out, and when it was announced it became a huge joke in the industry and people thought they were being punked because it’s identical to the CX90 without a third row seat.
CX-60 has been out for 2yrs now. Just type "CX-60 X3" on youtube and you'll see all the comparisons.
LOL! Ask some Porsche and Lotus owners if they considered an MX-5
I mean the market for convertible sports cars isn't big so... I know one that's been cross shopped with a Z4.
Says the guy who has never driven any of the cars we are talking about. I have driven all of them and owned many of them, you are totally wrong. The ES and RX ride and drive nothing like a G80, GV-80 or obviously a G90. Those cars are much more sophisticated with better suspensions than the Mac strut/Toyota style suspensions the ES and RX have.
That "sophistication" doesn't seem to translate into real life when an RX rides significantly better than the GV70 I was in.
Yes, I'll ignore the established automotive journalist that's had more time on the track than both of us and take your word of it. The G90 with its mild-hybrid assisted electrically supercharged TTV6 barely beat the N/A multi-stage hybrid V6 through the quarter mile. I'm quite afraid at what the TTV6 LS would do to the G90. Yes, the 5LS has been a flop but it's still better than the G90 if you're actually an "enthusiast". Jason isn't the only one who praised the LS' handling chops.
Originally Posted by Eren
So it does drive better. If you wanna talk refinement the G90's drivetrain is inferior. There is really nothing special about the G90. OTOH the craftsmanship in the LS is 2nd to none in its class. Just take a look at the Haku trim interior.
Just out of curiosity I looked up C&D's LS500 and G90 comparison and truly, I want to know where these delusions of grandeur come from lol
The Patrol certainly set the standard for its segment back in 2010 and the QX80 (QX56 back then) was largely the same (more luxury less off-road hardware).
Not in the automotive world I am a part of lol
I'm talking about this:
That car doesn't exist in the US, its not an option for us to buy.
So it does drive better. If you wanna talk refinement the G90's drivetrain is inferior. There is really nothing special about the G90. OTOH the craftsmanship in the LS is 2nd to none in its class. Just take a look at the Haku trim interior.
Again, you haven't driven a G90, have you ever been in one? I doubt it. "Drives better" is relative. It handles better, its much sportier. As a consumer in this segment exclusively and who has been for 25 years, thats not what we want in the segment, and the LS'500s very poor sales performance shows that also. As a flagship sedan its too small inside, the ride is too firm, its too loud and the powertrain is not refined enough. The drivetrain in the LS500 is not more refined than the G90, again you haven't driven them. They are both turbo V6s and they are fine, but don't feel special at all.
The LS's interior is great, and its beautiful, the issue is in the space, ride quality and sound isolation, in those areas its worst in class.
I don't need to. You're not even seriously considering the G90 while negotiating deals for the 7 series yourself.
If you want to really experience cars you need to drive them and set your preconceived notions aside, and stop arguing with people who have owned them and have driven them. I want a car with a V8 or an EV, so that keeps me from being able to consider the G90. I also don't like having to do business in a Hyundai dealer, but the car itself ticks a lot of boxes. If I wanted to or needed to spend less on the car the G90 would be the easy choice.
Right now if I was moving up to the flagship segment I would easily choose a G90. I wouldn't trade my S Class for one though, because I don't need to save money.
CX-60 has been out for 2yrs now. Just type "CX-60 X3" on youtube and you'll see all the comparisons.
I'm thinking of the CX80. The CX60 absolutely does not compare with an X3 lol
I mean the market for convertible sports cars isn't big so... I know one that's been cross shopped with a Z4.
Thats one...not a trend, and a Z4 is not a Porsche or Lotus.
That "sophistication" doesn't seem to translate into real life when an RX rides significantly better than the GV70 I was in.
You did not drive the GV70, and the GV70 competes with the NX not the RX. The RX rides well, but it lacks any dynamic nature to the suspension and higher speed stability is much better in a car like the GV70. Rudimentary suspensions like what the FWD Toyota/Lexus TNGA cars have are one trick ponies, they ride well, but they don't have the combination of ride and handling that the more sophisticated systems provide.
A GV70 is much more like an X3 for instance than an NX or a CX60. The design of the vehicle is much more similar.
In order to really understand that difference, you need to be an enthusiast who appreciates premium and high end vehicles.
Most would think Mazda and Nissan (except the Godzilla ) are in comparison to Hyundai, Honda and Toyota, a little lower. Speaking of Mazda... does anyone see X7 design in their new CX90?
I do for sure, in the height of the profile and the slab sidedness.
I personally love Mazda, I think they make really premium feeling cars for the money and they have great designs. They aren't a luxury car though, and when you get into a top spec CX90, its really nice but its not a Mercedes or BMW or even a Lexus.
04-11-24, 07:30 PM
) are in comparison to Hyundai, Honda and Toyota, a little lower. Speaking of Mazda... does anyone see X7 design in their new CX90?