mmarshall

And.....if you remember, Genesis also lost a year or so when the various Hyundai dealerships were acting like spoiled kids, and engaged in lawsuits over which one of them was going to be able to sell/service Genesis products and which weren't.

Motorola

What you fundamentally fail to understand is that sales volume is not correlative of success in a vacuum. To this day you have refused to address the monstrous success of the Telluride and Palisade even though neither of them have ever touched Highlander's sales volume. Genesis is a subdivision of Hyundai Motor, which itself is only one arm of the Hyundai Motor Group, along with Kia . Hyundai itself has never come close to outselling Toyota in the US - scaling up to that level takes tremendous amounts of time and investment. Naturally, this also applies to Genesis as one arm of that. Do you think brands like Land Rover, one of the most desirable marquees, are upset that their sales are a fraction of BMW or Mercedes?

Infiniti now selling worse than Genesis doesn't alone mean that it's undesirable, it's also paired with other well-known facts like how long their cars sit on dealer lots before they're sold, their massive discounts, and the general mediocrity of their vehicles. The average price of a Genesis vehicle is in another league compared to Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus. If Hyundai wanted to boost Genesis sales volume without any regard for anything else, they could simply rename and rebadge the Palisade as a Genesis and overtake Lexus RX sales in a single year. But they aren't that stupid and mediocre as a company.

Genesis was literally unable to establish its own standalone dealerships until about a couple years ago because of all the bickering and legal action by Hyundai dealers. So far there's only been about a dozen or so built.

peteharvey

Of course sales volume is not directly associated with success, but there is a strong association between the two.

Back in the 1990's, I purchased my first Lexus from a Toyota dealership with a tiny little Lexus showroom added-on, and many Lexus consumers did this to make Lexus an "overnight success" - a feat that has totally eluded poor old Genesis.
Today, that dealership is exclusively Toyota, while Lexus has moved to a dedicated site.
It's not principally the dealership, but the product that sells.

Steve says that Genesis has premium RWD-based mechanicals with double wishbone/multilink suspension to keep the tires perpendicular to the road to maximize grip - and that is absolutely great! 👌

However, Genesis must learn the art of putting emotion into their motor vehicles.
Without emotion, Genesis just won't sell - just like Infiniti and modern day Acuras.

SW17LS

I would argue with very few exceptions Lexus vehicles are devoid of emotion also.

peteharvey

However, Lexus has become an overnight success - a feat that has totally eluded Genesis.
And this is despite me purchasing my first Lexus from a Toyota dealership where a liddle part of the showroom was turned into a Lexus showroom - yet Lexus sold in droves.

SW17LS

Lexus became an overnight success because they invested in dealers upfront and they had a car that was extremely good for extremely cheap.

Motorola

Cute anecdote, but a big part of Lexus's success was how they dramatically raised the standard of service for luxury car ownership through their dealers. Look at the story of how they handled the first recall of the LS400. It also helped that the LS400 was about half the price of the competition at the time. No car company in the world is ever going to have that first mover advantage that Lexus did, nor will they have the aid of something like the insane bubble economy that Japan had at the time that allowed them to fund this venture. The only disruptor we've had in recent history is Tesla, and their path to success was nothing like Lexus's.

Look at Lexus's product lineup now, and see how little of it resembles what Lexus sold in the 90s. Where is your beloved GS that you claim is superior to the G80?

peteharvey

The dealership where I bought my first Lexus from was not a fancy dealership.
It was just a Toyota dealership with an exclusive part of the showroom dedicated to Lexiis.
Today, Lexus has relocated to their own dedicated dealership.

Motorola

What's funny is Pete's idea that "emotion sells." So much emotion in those large FWD crossovers that make up the bulk of all sales lol

it is remarkable how much effort you put in to keep moving goalposts and avoid addressing my points lol

Striker223

This.

Lexus was so damn good in the 90s and early 2000s they totally overshadowed the German big 3 except at the ultra high end. Heck they are so good in those years I don't really want many German cars for my
collection or to experience owning. Back in those years you weren't giving anything up and actually got serious quality

Genesis makes some cars I like the looks of from 20ft back but up close when you really start comparing stuff it's "eh" outside of their best offerings and at that point why would I want an imitation of the best?

peteharvey

Motorola, you're satisfied that Lexus was an "overnight success" - something that has totally dumbfounded Genesis?
You now understand how 3 decades ago, we purchased our Lexii overnight wonders at Plain Jane Toyota dealerships?

If you want Genesis to become a success you must listen.
Otherwise, you can keep on celebrating Genesis outselling dud Infiniti.

Motorola

No "we" just you lol

They're already pretty successful. As for listening to someone whose metric of success is a car that Lexus cancelled due to poor sales, why would they listen to that?

peteharvey

Yes, I totally agree with you Striker.


How can you call Genesis a success after outselling dud Infiniti?

As the OP bitkahuna attests, Genesis is a long way behind the major players.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l#post11701649

Stats show Genesis is well behind the major players.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/1020998-genesis-ascending-6.html#post11709679

Motorola

Because I have an actual understanding of what those sales numbers mean. I think you should try learning about it too - starting by reading all the posts you ignored and moved goalposts with.

GFerg

Man, y'all beat the socks off this topic again. Y'all done.