2024 BMW M4 Competition RWD
06-17-24, 02:23 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
It definitely appeals to more people but that’s opposite of what ///M should be about. All about $$$ and generating revenue.
06-17-24, 02:25 PM
#32
drives cars
Like, I would say that my IS 500 is not scary to drive, but I also can't just be an idiot. If I drive with TC off, there is a sense of danger about it because it's RWD with a 5.0 V-8. It will step out easily. But I also think it's predictable and not totally undrivable.
06-17-24, 02:33 PM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
This is also true with any manual car even modern ones. How does the clutch feel, when to shift etc.
06-17-24, 02:39 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
I feel like there is a big difference between "car that is involving to drive" and "car that is trying to kill me".
Like, I would say that my IS 500 is not scary to drive, but I also can't just be an idiot. If I drive with TC off, there is a sense of danger about it because it's RWD with a 5.0 V-8. It will step out easily. But I also think it's predictable and not totally undrivable.
Like, I would say that my IS 500 is not scary to drive, but I also can't just be an idiot. If I drive with TC off, there is a sense of danger about it because it's RWD with a 5.0 V-8. It will step out easily. But I also think it's predictable and not totally undrivable.
Its hard to explain the difference unless you drive the 2 cars.
I have driven many performance cars that are much more capable than my M3 but to me it’s the car I connect with the most.
06-17-24, 02:57 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I guess I’m phrasing it wrong. The F8x doesn’t feel dangerous, but you need to learn the inputs. The G8x is like a video game, just press go and computer will help you along the way to make it nice and smooth.
Its hard to explain the difference unless you drive the 2 cars.
I have driven many performance cars that are much more capable than my M3 but to me it’s the car I connect with the most.
Its hard to explain the difference unless you drive the 2 cars.
I have driven many performance cars that are much more capable than my M3 but to me it’s the car I connect with the most.
06-17-24, 02:57 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
I’m not fighting the car. I know it perfectly but if Joe Shmo got into it, he would not be able to control it like I can from the 1st drive. There is a learning curve and feeling that you are learning the car.
This is also true with any manual car even modern ones. How does the clutch feel, when to shift etc.
This is also true with any manual car even modern ones. How does the clutch feel, when to shift etc.
Not something I need to dial back for or be cautious with
06-17-24, 03:05 PM
#37
Pole Position
I guess I’m phrasing it wrong. The F8x doesn’t feel dangerous, but you need to learn the inputs. The G8x is like a video game, just press go and computer will help you along the way to make it nice and smooth.
Its hard to explain the difference unless you drive the 2 cars.
I have driven many performance cars that are much more capable than my M3 but to me it’s the car I connect with the most.
Its hard to explain the difference unless you drive the 2 cars.
I have driven many performance cars that are much more capable than my M3 but to me it’s the car I connect with the most.
First, I owned a 2015 F82 in 2016. It was beautiful, fast and capable...but I didn't like the peakiness of the delivery of the power, and I hated the way it sounded when just driving around. It only sounded good to me when I was really pushing it. And I had a full aftermarket exhaust. I would have kept it like 2 to 3 years (which is short for me, I tend to marry cars for 8+ years), but someone offered me a ton of money for mine so I sold it after 10 months. Didn't miss it.
Then I bought a 2013 M3 in 2017 with the V8. Fell in love with the sound of that engine, and the feel of the car...and the fact that it was comfortable enough to take on long trips, which I have done plenty of. Still own my E93, it has 150,000 miles, and I still love driving it. I prefer the power delivery and the sound of the E9X generation, but I do understand the allure of the F82, which is much faster and much more capable.
I bought a brand new 2021 M4 in 2021, my first new car ever, and I ordered it. And I really like it. And mine is RWD, so it can get outta hand real quick if you're not careful and have the Traction Control off. I certainly miss the drama of the DCT, and it's definitely a large, heavy coupe. And like the M5, it's a bit isolated. And the piped-in sound is annoying. But it's wayyyy more efficient than my E93's V8. And the power delivery is more linear than the F82's.
Plus, I mod and code all my BMWs. With my coding and mods, the car is now more raw (at the press of an M button), quieter with the interior sound coded off, and quite comfortable when I'm running errands. And at this size, it's amazingly nimble on all but the narrowest B roads. And the chassis is really good, with crisp turn-in and loads of grip. The steering is my biggest issue, with no feel. My E93 steering is much better...heavier with more feel, though still not perfect.
I drive both my E93 and G82 all the time as it's the only 2 cars I own, and I truly enjoy them both, for different reasons. No F8X or G8X will ever sound as good as an E9X.
These will be my last BMWs, and I've enjoyed my time with them...especially the 2 I currently now. I'm ready for a purpose-built sports car. Saving now, and hoping the market remains strong
06-17-24, 03:30 PM
#38
Super Moderator
“Difficult to drive” - I want to drive the car and have a learning curve doing it. I don’t want a car that makes it easy and anyone can do it, it also doesn’t feel as special/engaging.
There is nothing wrong with suspension setup of F8x cars, its more a case of the low rpm torque which doesn’t allow for them to put the power down well. The CS cars and later Comp models had less aggressive torque curve at lower RPMs but you still have to be able to manage it. The new G8x is idiot proof, just mash the throttle and computer does all the work. Its fast but boring for ppl that want additional engagement, which is a minority.
There is nothing wrong with suspension setup of F8x cars, its more a case of the low rpm torque which doesn’t allow for them to put the power down well. The CS cars and later Comp models had less aggressive torque curve at lower RPMs but you still have to be able to manage it. The new G8x is idiot proof, just mash the throttle and computer does all the work. Its fast but boring for ppl that want additional engagement, which is a minority.
I definitely disagree with the bolded part though. You still have to learn it (or at least I did and still am), but what I was talking about before was the amount of mechanical grip that's available, well before the computer does anything. That's pretty much all suspension. I have not driven a late F8X though, as I drove a 2015 and 2016 when I was shopping.I’m not fighting the car. I know it perfectly but if Joe Shmo got into it, he would not be able to control it like I can from the 1st drive. There is a learning curve and feeling that you are learning the car.
This is also true with any manual car even modern ones. How does the clutch feel, when to shift etc.
This is also true with any manual car even modern ones. How does the clutch feel, when to shift etc.
And that's the part that matters. Life's too short not to drive what you love.
And to bring it back full circle, I'm guessing the new owner of this Aventurin M4 is going to love the hell out of his car.
Last edited by geko29; 06-17-24 at 03:34 PM.
06-17-24, 03:50 PM
#39
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
06-17-24, 03:52 PM
#41
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
06-17-24, 04:40 PM
#42
Pole Position
The car is bananas fast once the RPMs soar past 3,000 rpm, and is way more agile than it should be for its size.
It's more car than many can handle, and with his version being RWD like mine, it can be a handful. I got the 10-stage traction control as well, which is also a drift analyzer. But I don't care about that part. I love the fact that I can dial in the exact amount of slip I want depending on the situation, which provides another level of excitement.
The track is the best way to truly experience what the engineers have created, then you can really feel the refinement and capability of the chassis.
The lifeless steering is my biggest issue, though the turn-in is crisp and sharp. Aftermarket monoballs and a steering tune add some feel and life back into the steering, so I've been told (I don't have that mod), though I'm sure it will never feel like an old hydraulic system. Those days are long gone for most high-performance vehicles. If one wants that level of granularity, just by a car from generations past.
It's more car than many can handle, and with his version being RWD like mine, it can be a handful. I got the 10-stage traction control as well, which is also a drift analyzer. But I don't care about that part. I love the fact that I can dial in the exact amount of slip I want depending on the situation, which provides another level of excitement.
The track is the best way to truly experience what the engineers have created, then you can really feel the refinement and capability of the chassis.
The lifeless steering is my biggest issue, though the turn-in is crisp and sharp. Aftermarket monoballs and a steering tune add some feel and life back into the steering, so I've been told (I don't have that mod), though I'm sure it will never feel like an old hydraulic system. Those days are long gone for most high-performance vehicles. If one wants that level of granularity, just by a car from generations past.
Last edited by KevinGS; 06-17-24 at 04:44 PM.
06-17-24, 05:34 PM
#43
Lexus Champion
The difference between hydro and EPS is very stark for sure....I have two similar cars with one hydro other eps and there is no contest at all.
The hydro system is way more complicated though, cheaper to repair from parts cost perspective but way more parts. It's a bit lighter as well though so all things considered I would pick it instead. The adaptive steering rack section allows advanced functions separate from the actual rack as well so that not a functional drawback just cost
The hydro system is way more complicated though, cheaper to repair from parts cost perspective but way more parts. It's a bit lighter as well though so all things considered I would pick it instead. The adaptive steering rack section allows advanced functions separate from the actual rack as well so that not a functional drawback just cost
06-17-24, 07:38 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
sounds like you should get an original dodge viper. very powerful, raw, and pretty lethal.
The new G8x is idiot proof, just mash the throttle and computer does all the work. Its fast but boring for ppl that want additional engagement, which is a minority.
maybe you should check out the ioniq 5 N which just did a smoking fast lap of the ring by an owner (video in ev chat forum). seems to have plenty of visceral, and fake sounds have been hugely praised!
my lc500 is plenty for me and i love the rear steering and i don't care if some might say it doesn't have the right feel!
06-17-24, 07:40 PM
#45
Lexus Champion
times and wants change.
i totally don't get that. but yeah i'm sure bmw is going to focus on cars that are difficult to drive. not just bmw... how about porsche... a 1985 911 turbo is REALLY dicey to drive, tail happy, and certainly jerky with its old clutch, etc. no thanks, give me a modern vastly more capable porsche that is also pretty luxurious and definitely "special/engaging" to me at least.
sounds like you should get an original dodge viper. very powerful, raw, and pretty lethal.
if they made companies just for tiny minorities, the cars would have to sell for 3x as much. porsche almost went out of business until they realized they had to do 2 things: better quality, and higher volume to share parts. enter: the boxster, and deming consultants. that saved porsche. if you don't do high volume, you have to be like rolls / bentley, and even those had to get bought and share parts at some point.
"should be" to you, but car companies are in the business of making money, and can't do what you want and survive. the market demands refinement even with visceral thrills. german brands in particular are in a tricky spot, wanting customers but not wanting to lose customers like you. reality is the market for 'boring' cars is vastly bigger.
maybe you should check out the ioniq 5 N which just did a smoking fast lap of the ring by an owner (video in ev chat forum). seems to have plenty of visceral, and fake sounds have been hugely praised!
you are mighty confident. i know my skill isn't very high so it doesn't take much to make me happy. my lc500 is plenty for me and i love the rear steering and i don't care if some might say it doesn't have the right feel!
i totally don't get that. but yeah i'm sure bmw is going to focus on cars that are difficult to drive. not just bmw... how about porsche... a 1985 911 turbo is REALLY dicey to drive, tail happy, and certainly jerky with its old clutch, etc. no thanks, give me a modern vastly more capable porsche that is also pretty luxurious and definitely "special/engaging" to me at least.
sounds like you should get an original dodge viper. very powerful, raw, and pretty lethal.
if they made companies just for tiny minorities, the cars would have to sell for 3x as much. porsche almost went out of business until they realized they had to do 2 things: better quality, and higher volume to share parts. enter: the boxster, and deming consultants. that saved porsche. if you don't do high volume, you have to be like rolls / bentley, and even those had to get bought and share parts at some point.
"should be" to you, but car companies are in the business of making money, and can't do what you want and survive. the market demands refinement even with visceral thrills. german brands in particular are in a tricky spot, wanting customers but not wanting to lose customers like you. reality is the market for 'boring' cars is vastly bigger.
maybe you should check out the ioniq 5 N which just did a smoking fast lap of the ring by an owner (video in ev chat forum). seems to have plenty of visceral, and fake sounds have been hugely praised!
you are mighty confident. i know my skill isn't very high so it doesn't take much to make me happy.
my lc500 is plenty for me and i love the rear steering and i don't care if some might say it doesn't have the right feel!