RNM GS3

Every McLaren has issues.
296 is selling well bec Ferrari owners MUST buy them.

I went to my local Ferrari dealer and they had 10 of them collecting dust. They were 2nd hand with couple hundred miles. If dealer offers you the car and you refuse, Ferrari will not offer you another car. It’s all a game but Ferrari can do that, while McLaren can’t.

They had so many Romas there, i couldn’t count all of them lol.

Not a fan of the new Ferrari design language.

S2000toIS350

I think the hybrid of choice will end up being the Revuelto with its' 12 cylinder joy factor.
720S is hot now because it sits in the newest/fastest category for the guys stuck in the endless pissing contest. There was an open top one at a cars and coffee I went to this past Sunday, it is a crazy machine.
Artura is underpowered relative to the 296, even though it costs less, who cares as the guy who can have the Artura can have a 296.

Striker223

Bigger engine and turbos. A 6.0+ class engine doesn't need "TQ fill" lol!

autozero

As a McLaren owner myself, not all McLarens have debilitating issues - that's grossly exaggerated by YouTubers and from people who don't own McLarens. They do all have little software gremlins yes but not usually things requiring a dealer visit - just simply turning the car on and off. The Artura specifically had issues from being a new hybrid and they paused production to get it sorted --- hopefully it's better now but reputational damage is done.

I agree that Ferrari can sell cars just by the games that they make customers play but it's also true that the 296 is an actually fun car to drive unlike the Roma and every other modern turbo Ferrari. I would say the 296 is the best car Ferrari has made since the 458. The only people who dislike it are those that get hung up on it being a hybrid or a v6 vs actually having driven it.

The larger point I'm making is that a performance car can be hybrid (or not) but the underlying driving experience and engine also have to be fun and engaging (and the design as well). One of the issues with the NSX for example is that the underlying V6 sounds mehhh and the interior looks straight out of a Honda Accord. That's not going to sell that well regardless of hybridization or not. Compare that to the Revuelto hybrid and the underlying car is a freaking NA V12 that sounds amazing with an incredible design and it's no wonder Lamborghini has a 3 year waitlist on it. People aren't buying these cars bc of hybridization or not. It's whether or not the total package is good or not.

autozero

Torque fill is helpful regardless of displacement / power bc it gives immediate torque at any rpm (akin to the same effect you get from a fully electric car). Non-hybrid motors take time to build power whether boosted or not

703

nailed it. It’s the sum of parts and not one particular part that makes up the experience. You only need to visit the EV forum to see myopic views centered on the “E” but not the “V”.

Striker223

No they don't, you have 600+ TQ off converter stall

703

it still takes time to build up torque even at less than a second - a second is a lot in a sports car considering 3-4 second 0-60mph territory.

stall speed is not the same as the moment you hit the accelerator, which electric motors give you.

designo

iTrader: (6)

Just imagine this....

A hybrid V10 with 9000 rpm.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks for the laugh. the 24 hr lemans and other categories of hypercars are all hybrids, including bmw. toyota has been domainant although ferrari has won the 24 hr race (with a hybrid) the past 2 years.

i think a miata would be perfect for you then... has all those qualities and is wonderful to drive.

RNM GS3

Instead of making sarcastic comments - please enlighten me on the benefits that a hybrid brings that outweigh the negatives in a sports car for the street.

I don’t fit in a Miata, the performance cars I currently own all have those qualities. Unfortunately the new cars have less and less, that’s why you see cars like the 458, 997 GT3 and Turbos go up in value dramatically for example.

Regulations make it very difficult to make a fun pure sports car in 2024.

RNM GS3

You can’t walk into a Ferrari dealership and buy a new 296, only a used one at way over Msrp.

Anyone can go and buy an Artura.

I have driven the new Artura and it’s not for me. I personally have no interest in a V6 McLaren or Ferrari.

I’m interested in driving the Maserati MC20 - those cars are well below $200k now and just look amazing plus No Hybrid crap!

RNM GS3

I don’t doubt that the hybrid system improves performance and for racing it may even have great benefits. But for my use on a street car, the added weight and complexity of the system which will create further headaches in repair/service doesn’t make up for the incremental improvement in performance it will generate. The tuning/moding aspect is also reduced with a hybrid system.

Toyota / Lexus is not exempt from engine issues as we have seen with some of their turbo engines. Again hopefully this new car makes production and is priced around $200k and weighs less than 4,000lbs.

The Revuelto would have sold no matter what. It’s offered first to existing owners who will buy it and sell it if they don’t like it. Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche have no trouble selling their top cars. The real answer is how does the secondary market judge these cars when they are listed with a few thousand miles. Will anyone want to own a hybrid V12 Lambo out of warranty?

autozero

The MC20 also has a V6 and sounds worse than the 296 or the Artura minus some turbo spools/wastegate niceties. It's so fast that sometimes, you forget that it doesn't have a hybrid but I would never buy one despite how good it looks because of Maserati reputation, depreciation and unproven reliability --- plus the brake by wire braking feel is awful. I agree with you that sports cars of today aren't as fun as before but it's not necessarily because of hybridization. Neither the Artura or the 296 weigh as much as the MC20 (which doesn't have a hybrid lol) and they all have reliability issues so what's your complaint exactly when it comes to the comparison? If you look at the new hybrid Porsche 911 GTS, the biggest complaints aren't even that it's hybrid, it's that Porsche got rid of the analog tachometer and the lemans key for an ugly start/stop button. If you read the Porsche press release, they explicitly state the hybrid was engineered not for peak efficiency but for peak performance.

Anyways, I'm not saying I want a hybrid or its preferred but it's really not that bad. I'd rather have a hybrid Lexus LC F with a NA V8+hybrid than a twin turbo V8 LC F that muffles the V8 sound.

Full electric, however, heck no.

RNM GS3

^
If you watch the Savagegeese video on new GTS with Porsche engineers, they say the hybrid tech was for meeting new emissions and with that they also improved performance.
That new engine looks extremely complex and I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole outside of a warranty.
The digital tach is garbage as is the new push button start, just cost cutting at its finest.

My attraction to MC20 is the styling and cheap price for the performance.
The other new car I really like is the updated AM Vantage.
Waiting to see the 992.2 911 Turbo - there should be RWD manual model coming next year.