Originally Posted by Striker223

Given the choice no. The truck teams are also under the umbrella I mentioned btw, that's a separate type of performance but offer any of those guys a chance to work on supercars instead and they would take it.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

there's not enough supercars for everyone to work on them. and those teams are likely pretty small.

Originally Posted by Striker223

Okay. You are just proving my point even more that all the elite talent is concentrated at the top and as near to the top as they can get. Not at Toyota

Originally Posted by Striker223

Sure but offer the same tier of "global talent" the choice between Toyota and the big German 3 and it's clear where people tend to end up. The American brands have some killer performance teams but that's about it over here and that's only because of what those individual cars mean in an emotional context for many.

VAG in particular has so many desirable brands it's a big draw on talent, would you rather work on a GR corolla or a 911 GT3RS?

Originally Posted by Motorola

I agree. I don't know where this oft-repeated idea that Toyota would miraculously be able to "leapfrog" the competition comes from, but it hasn't been the case for either turbos or EV's. Other brands have spent the past few years if not couple decades perfecting and widely implementing their modern powertrains and other technologies, and Toyota/Lexus more or less coasted on their naturally aspirated offerings and mousepads up until very recently. Now lo and behold, they're having some of the same issues that other brands had years prior. Same can be said with EV's. The only field that Toyota has been iteratively improving time and again is their hybrid technology. But for the company that wrote the rulebook on Kaizen, it's strange to see them more or less ignore it.

I still can't wrap my head around how poor the product planning and engineering was for the outgoing ES where they were physically unable to fit an AWD system with the V6.

Originally Posted by situman

Dude you must be stuck in 2020. Toyota not investing in EVs was deliberate and they were vindicated with the fevered adoption of hybrids and guess who makes the best hybrids and for the longest time? Toyota made an EV and an ICE drivetrain work together, in the same car! Let's not assume they dont know how to shove big electric motors and big battery packs into a car

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

different categories of cars need different skills. it's not an 'elite' thing. there's incredible skill making a toyota camry as good as it is, vs. a mclaren, which may be fast, but has huge reliability problems. same with aston, etc.

Originally Posted by Striker223

Okay. You are just proving my point even more that all the elite talent is concentrated at the top and as near to the top as they can get. Not at Toyota

Originally Posted by Allen K

I worked in aerospace in a previous life and you'd be surprised by how many engineers are more interested in owning and improving winglets vs. jet engines.

Originally Posted by Striker223

Do you see the best tech on an F15EX or a 737? Where do the best people work?

Originally Posted by Striker223

Sure man, I never mentioned those companies btw only Porsche and I did so for a reason. A Camry is 10 years behind the competition so I would certainly hope it's at least got reliable going for it, issue is it's not 2004 anymore and almost all car are "Lexus level" reliable now so as MANY people on this very forum and myself have found there is no reason anymore to stick with Toyota/Lexus out of fear of reliability issues

Originally Posted by situman

Realistically, the Camry dont really have much competition anymore. Even the Accord seems to have fallen by the wayside. The recently revised version shows Toyota wasnt exactly sleeping on the model either. The update was quite impressive tbh.

Originally Posted by Striker223

How are we defining impressive?

Originally Posted by Striker223

A Camry is 10 years behind the competition so I would certainly hope it's at least got reliable going for it

Originally Posted by Allen K

The point is 'best' is subjective. There are fantastic engineers that are more interested in building the most reliable engine vs. the quickest or most powerful. If you're looking for those on the cutting edge, you'd be looking at the racing teams and not the consumer vehicle teams.

Originally Posted by Striker223

How are we defining impressive?