General Car Conversation 2024 - part 2
09-10-24, 03:34 PM
#1141
Lexus Champion
Guys, 20+ year old LSs are not superior to brand new S Classes lol. Come on. They were great cars when they were made, and are certainly some of the best cars ever made but modern technology has taken cars to a place that just didn't exist when those cars were built. Doesn't mean they aren't still impressive and enjoyable cars...but they aren't better than a brand new S Class...or E Class...
For example, your car disconnects the drivetrain from the wheels to----guess----save a drop of fuel, and then when they reconnect there is sometimes an unbecoming feeling. And not all of us want electric motors in our S-Classes, that 48V system. IDC if it gives extra power. But if to you that makes it better you are certainly not wrong and it's understandable. But that's why I was interested in that 560, the last pure ICE S-Class.
However...
Strook is absolutely right, our old cars weren't made to be tossed after the leases when there is lots of real evidence out there suggesting it is the way it is these days, 20 years later. Old Lexus LSs were made to last absolutely forever, and they do.
09-10-24, 03:40 PM
#1142
Lexus Fanatic
I think both arguments hold water. Steve isn't wrong, but tech alone doesn't make a car better.. at least in this context IMO.
For example, your car disconnects the drivetrain from the wheels to----guess----save a drop of fuel, and then when they reconnect there is sometimes an unbecoming feeling. And not all of us want electric motors in our S-Classes, that 48V system. IDC if it gives extra power. But if to you that makes it better you are certainly not wrong and it's understandable. But that's why I was interested in that 560, the last pure ICE S-Class.
However...
Strook is absolutely right, our old cars weren't made to be tossed after the leases when there is lots of real evidence out there suggesting it is the way it is these days, 20 years later. Old Lexus LSs were made to last absolutely forever, and they do.
For example, your car disconnects the drivetrain from the wheels to----guess----save a drop of fuel, and then when they reconnect there is sometimes an unbecoming feeling. And not all of us want electric motors in our S-Classes, that 48V system. IDC if it gives extra power. But if to you that makes it better you are certainly not wrong and it's understandable. But that's why I was interested in that 560, the last pure ICE S-Class.
However...
Strook is absolutely right, our old cars weren't made to be tossed after the leases when there is lots of real evidence out there suggesting it is the way it is these days, 20 years later. Old Lexus LSs were made to last absolutely forever, and they do.
Technology does not only mean features. Technology advances are everywhere in a new car, stiffer structure, better sound isolation, it goes on and on. When I get back into a car like that, and one of my agents has a 2004 LS430 I actually drove the other day considered buying it for my mom to replace the old ES300, it just feels like a car from another era, just something I have no interest in anymore.
Last edited by SW17LS; 09-10-24 at 03:44 PM.
09-10-24, 03:41 PM
#1143
Lexus Champion
I think both arguments hold water. Steve isn't wrong, but tech alone doesn't make a car better.. at least in this context IMO.
For example, your car disconnects the drivetrain from the wheels to----guess----save a drop of fuel, and then when they reconnect there is sometimes an unbecoming feeling. And not all of us want electric motors in our S-Classes, that 48V system. IDC if it gives extra power. But if to you that makes it better you are certainly not wrong and it's understandable. But that's why I was interested in that 560, the last pure ICE S-Class.
However...
Strook is absolutely right, our old cars weren't made to be tossed after the leases when there is lots of real evidence out there suggesting it is the way it is these days, 20 years later. Old Lexus LSs were made to last absolutely forever, and they do.
For example, your car disconnects the drivetrain from the wheels to----guess----save a drop of fuel, and then when they reconnect there is sometimes an unbecoming feeling. And not all of us want electric motors in our S-Classes, that 48V system. IDC if it gives extra power. But if to you that makes it better you are certainly not wrong and it's understandable. But that's why I was interested in that 560, the last pure ICE S-Class.
However...
Strook is absolutely right, our old cars weren't made to be tossed after the leases when there is lots of real evidence out there suggesting it is the way it is these days, 20 years later. Old Lexus LSs were made to last absolutely forever, and they do.
09-10-24, 03:43 PM
#1144
Lexus Fanatic
I don't understand why, have you driven a mild hybrid and it gave you a bad experience? I drove my friends M440i with the mild hybrid system, and it increases the responsiveness without a fuel penalty. Why is that bad? Most of work is still done by the 3.0L turbocharged I6
09-10-24, 03:46 PM
#1145
Lexus Champion
Exactly, you wouldn't even know it was there, it works with the engine. Without it, the car would be slower off the line, and it has the benefit of some minor fuel savings. I would have never known his car was a mild hybrid until I saw it in the specs
09-10-24, 03:46 PM
#1146
Lexus Test Driver
at 3:49: "an LS 400 with 50,000 miles should not look, feel, sound, or perform noticeably different than a new one"
i'm pretty damn certain the LS 500 isn't benchmarked to the same degree lol, but again times change as do buyer's priorities... there was no microsoft teams or google calls to hold your executive business meetings with, spending as little time as possible in your car is more the goal now than it was 2+ decades ago
09-10-24, 03:49 PM
#1147
Lexus Test Driver
i think the 48V system in my parents GLE450 is fantastic, my only complaint is that the stop/start is a bit too aggressive and there is often just enough lag to be noticeable when you take your foot off the brake like when going through a stop sign or something... it works better when you're coming to a full stop
09-10-24, 03:50 PM
#1148
Lexus Fanatic
i think the 48V system in my parents GLE450 is fantastic, my only complaint is that the stop/start is a bit too aggressive and there is often just enough lag to be noticeable when you take your foot off the brake like when going through a stop sign or something... it works better when you're coming to a full stop
I’ve actually started to leave it on. I’m having it coded this week, I will probably not code it off.
09-10-24, 03:51 PM
#1149
Lexus Fanatic
Yep, compared to my S560 without the 48v system and the same engine mine feels the same just a little stronger off the line and the stop start is much much better.
09-10-24, 04:11 PM
#1150
Lexus Champion
He constantly said he got 30mpg with it, at least when I would talk about my highway mileage.
I’ve only seen 27 with the new 580 on here. So all that for nothing, actual worse mpg, with those “upgrades”? It may be almost imperceptible but all that stuff I don’t like is still there regardless. Just let me have my apparently unpopular opinion.
09-10-24, 04:34 PM
#1151
Lexus Champion
His car is .3 seconds slower than the 560. 4.2 seconds 0-60 is fast enough, I’ll still pass on electric motors.
He constantly said he got 30mpg with it, at least when I would talk about my highway mileage.
I’ve only seen 27 with the new 580 on here. So all that for nothing, actual worse mpg, with those “upgrades”? It may be almost imperceptible but all that stuff I don’t like is still there regardless. Just let me have my apparently unpopular opinion.
He constantly said he got 30mpg with it, at least when I would talk about my highway mileage.
I’ve only seen 27 with the new 580 on here. So all that for nothing, actual worse mpg, with those “upgrades”? It may be almost imperceptible but all that stuff I don’t like is still there regardless. Just let me have my apparently unpopular opinion.
Anyway I don't want to **** you off, so I'll just move on
09-10-24, 04:39 PM
#1152
Lexus Test Driver
I actually feel like some of the luxury automakers went a bit too gaudy with the wood trim in the 90's and 2000's. It just doesn't speak to me and it feels like I'm riding around in a car my parents would have chosen.
When I bought my BMW I made sure I got one with the grey wood trim to keep the minimalistic/industrial aesthetic.
When I bought my BMW I made sure I got one with the grey wood trim to keep the minimalistic/industrial aesthetic.
09-10-24, 04:57 PM
#1153
Lexus Fanatic
His car is .3 seconds slower than the 560. 4.2 seconds 0-60 is fast enough, I’ll still pass on electric motors.
He constantly said he got 30mpg with it, at least when I would talk about my highway mileage.
I’ve only seen 27 with the new 580 on here. So all that for nothing, actual worse mpg, with those “upgrades”? It may be almost imperceptible but all that stuff I don’t like is still there regardless. Just let me have my apparently unpopular opinion.
He constantly said he got 30mpg with it, at least when I would talk about my highway mileage.
I’ve only seen 27 with the new 580 on here. So all that for nothing, actual worse mpg, with those “upgrades”? It may be almost imperceptible but all that stuff I don’t like is still there regardless. Just let me have my apparently unpopular opinion.
Opinions are fine, but you are totally closed minded on this and have zero personal experience from which to form an opinion. Its really strange. You would never know there was a difference between the two cars.
My S580 gets 20% better fuel economy than my S560, and drives exactly the same if not better...what is the issue? Again I've owned both cars you've never driven either, so don't tell me what kind of fuel economy difference there is.
The 48v system is not only there for fuel economy, some of the car's new features most notably the eABC suspension require the 48v system.
These are my last two trips to WV, top was the S560 in late May, and bottom is the S580 in August...thats a significant fuel economy improvement for no tradeoff:
Last edited by SW17LS; 09-10-24 at 05:16 PM.
09-10-24, 05:20 PM
#1155
Lexus Fanatic
Traffic lol, thats with the cruise set to 80 when traffic was free-flowing. Its also reset before I leave the house, so all the surface roads etc that you have to take to get to the highway are taken into account too, and all the surface roads once off the highway to get to my house.