General Car Conversation 2024 - part 2
#1246
Lexus Test Driver
Only 48 volt system I am very familiar with more than I wanted to be was helping someone in the Rx400h forum.
This was a hybrid tho so it had a 200+v high volt battery already in it that handles the hybrid system. The high volt hybrid system is very complex.
However, it uses a DC to DC voltage step down unit to drop the hybrid high volts battery down to 48v.
The 48v is used for the servo motor in the steering rack and that's why there's no power steering pump.
Needs to be that way because people need their power steering when in hybrid mode. Lol
It does add complexity and some cars got totalled because of failure in the 48v system but these are already heavily depreciated older cars, still unfortunate tho.
This was a hybrid tho so it had a 200+v high volt battery already in it that handles the hybrid system. The high volt hybrid system is very complex.
However, it uses a DC to DC voltage step down unit to drop the hybrid high volts battery down to 48v.
The 48v is used for the servo motor in the steering rack and that's why there's no power steering pump.
Needs to be that way because people need their power steering when in hybrid mode. Lol
It does add complexity and some cars got totalled because of failure in the 48v system but these are already heavily depreciated older cars, still unfortunate tho.
#1247
Lexus Fanatic
I think its also important to be open to the idea that your opinions and preconceived notions about things aren't accurate. For instance I have always been a staunchly anti 4 cyl guy, but I have subsequently driven some cars where the 4 cyl really feels good, and now I am of the opinion that for most mainstream cars and even some entry level luxury cars 4 cyl turbo powerplants can be made to be a good option.
Thats why this whole S560 vs S580 thing is so frustrating to me, having owned both cars...they both have the same engine and transmission the only difference is the 580 has the 48v system and the 560 was a 12v system...there is no tradeoff from a drivabiulity standpoint. They are the same, identical...so the argument that there is somehow a drivability difference that a owner would feel is absolutely untrue. The argument about reliability and so on and so forth is a different argument, we don't know the end result of that yet...but I can say with 100% confidence day to day driving there is no difference.
Thats why this whole S560 vs S580 thing is so frustrating to me, having owned both cars...they both have the same engine and transmission the only difference is the 580 has the 48v system and the 560 was a 12v system...there is no tradeoff from a drivabiulity standpoint. They are the same, identical...so the argument that there is somehow a drivability difference that a owner would feel is absolutely untrue. The argument about reliability and so on and so forth is a different argument, we don't know the end result of that yet...but I can say with 100% confidence day to day driving there is no difference.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 09-11-24 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Don't be condescending please
#1248
Lexus Test Driver
I think the key innovation in making newer cars last longer has to be the metallurgy and rustproofing. You can create a simple and durable vehicle but it means nothing if the car just starts to corrode after the first instance of salt roads. People tout pre-2000's Benzes as a bastion of reliable cars built like tanks but even the W210 had its reputation killed by rust.
#1249
Lexus Champion
Last edited by Striker223; 09-11-24 at 01:32 PM.
#1250
Lexus Fanatic
You're right and if anything there's evidence to the contrary - the average age of a car on US roads is 12.6 years old now - and it's been gradually rising for the past few decades. What's especially telling is that the age keeps going up even after Cash for Clunkers. Newer cars just last longer.
I think the key innovation in making newer cars last longer has to be the metallurgy and rustproofing. You can create a simple and durable vehicle but it means nothing if the car just starts to corrode after the first instance of salt roads. People tout pre-2000's Benzes as a bastion of reliable cars built like tanks but even the W210 had its reputation killed by rust.
I think the key innovation in making newer cars last longer has to be the metallurgy and rustproofing. You can create a simple and durable vehicle but it means nothing if the car just starts to corrode after the first instance of salt roads. People tout pre-2000's Benzes as a bastion of reliable cars built like tanks but even the W210 had its reputation killed by rust.
#1251
Lexus Champion
I think its also important to be open to the idea that your opinions and preconceived notions about things aren't accurate. For instance I have always been a staunchly anti 4 cyl guy, but I have subsequently driven some cars where the 4 cyl really feels good, and now I am of the opinion that for most mainstream cars and even some entry level luxury cars 4 cyl turbo powerplants can be made to be a good option.
Thats why this whole S560 vs S580 thing is so frustrating to me, having owned both cars...they both have the same engine and transmission the only difference is the 580 has the 48v system and the 560 was a 12v system...there is no tradeoff from a drivabiulity standpoint. They are the same, identical...so the argument that there is somehow a drivability difference that a owner would feel is absolutely untrue. The argument about reliability and so on and so forth is a different argument, we don't know the end result of that yet...but I can say with 100% confidence day to day driving there is no difference.
Thats why this whole S560 vs S580 thing is so frustrating to me, having owned both cars...they both have the same engine and transmission the only difference is the 580 has the 48v system and the 560 was a 12v system...there is no tradeoff from a drivabiulity standpoint. They are the same, identical...so the argument that there is somehow a drivability difference that a owner would feel is absolutely untrue. The argument about reliability and so on and so forth is a different argument, we don't know the end result of that yet...but I can say with 100% confidence day to day driving there is no difference.
Now if you absolutely are not interested in a certain type of vehicle, that's your right, and you don't have to justify it, and you can even criticize it all you want. Just don't be surprised if people question you on it, especially someone who actually owns or has driven the vehicle.
I just want to state this again, there is nothing wrong with owning or buying older vehicles, you won't hear any criticisms from me
Last edited by DaveGS4; 09-11-24 at 02:09 PM. Reason: quoted post edited
#1252
Lexus Test Driver
Manufacturing processes have allowed for engines to be designed and built in a way where they don't wear out as fast as they did 30-40 years ago. It used to be an accomplishment for an engine to reach 100k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
#1253
Lexus Champion
Manufacturing processes have allowed for engines to be designed and built in a way where they don't wear out as fast as they did 30-40 years ago. It used to be an accomplishment for an engine to reach 100k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
Now it would be an utter embarrassment for it NOT to reach 250k or 300k.
#1254
Lexus Test Driver
i will say this though about older cars "lasting longer"... i think that impression comes from how older cars can run in a totally crappy state for a long time, whereas a modern car is more likely to work fine or just not work at all... it's also harder to DIY stuff on a modern car for someone who isn't mechanically inclined, or even for someone who is lol
#1255
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
In older cars it would continue to run "fine" in that state until the smaller failure irreparably damaged the engine.
#1256
Lexus Champion
You can't put that together? WTF was wrong with ICE only S-Class? Because you own EVs isn't an answer.
#1257
Lexus Champion
"A 48V system can provide more power, improve energy recuperation,[7] and allow up to an 85% decrease in cable mass"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/48-volt_electrical_system
Last edited by AMIRZA786; 09-11-24 at 02:12 PM.
#1259
Lexus Test Driver
however the vortec 5300 does seem to be quite the workhorse, i still see a decent amount of those going
#1260
Lexus Champion
Or owner induced stupidity, even a Kia engine will last if the owner checks oil and keeps feeding it. All of the ones I've had to replace are because the owner failed to check it