Striker223

Then you have never heard a good stereo, sorry it I've heard enough live music and I was in a symphony group for a while. It doesn't compare to the emotion and engagement you get from a good system. Having people there massively detract from an experience like that, I don't want a bunch of random people around if I can help it.

Yeah I know it's an experience, that I can't have unless I have stuff. That's my point. I can go get an insane adrenaline hit at will because of what I have

SW17LS

We just are never going to see eye to eye on this. No matter how incredible a stereo its not the same as watching and listening to live music. The emotion you get from a recording is nothing compared to the emotion you get from actually watching and listening to a performer live with a group of people. Look at all of these people at Taylor Swift concerts. Ask any of them if they felt that concert was not worth the insane cost? They will remember being a part of that tour forever. You can watch it on TV, but its not the same.

Its like leather...no matter how excellent the fake leather is...its not leather. I want real leather...and I want real music performed by real people live in front of me.

The stuff is the vehicle by which you have the experience, thats my point. Its like having a boat, what is fun about the boat is the lifestyle the boat brings and the experiences it brings. Not the physical boat itself.

FrankReynoldsCPA

My problem is a lot of the performances I would love to have seen a live...the performers aren't in peak performing state anymore(and a lot of them aren't even alive).

Striker223

For you.

I have dropped 1000s on broadway and live events etc and have been a performer in bands etc and I'm telling you it's just not the same as relaxing alone with a glass of scotch, a charcuterie board and no one else to annoy you. Plus I can go from any album I want to another at will as many times I want as long as I want and once again the sound quality is on a completely different level than any live performance.

I have witnessed people cry for minutes at a time when they hear bands they love and have seen live on a high end stereo and admit it was superior in all ways to live. That's not fake and it's a real "experience" as you put it.....enabled by having nice things

SW17LS

Thats why I said we're not going to see eye to eye on this...I don't agree on any level. Give me a real live experience. Live music isn't about "sound quality"... You're into things and I'm just not. I like certain nice things too (cars are the big one) but I wonder is it the music you are attracted to there, or the stereo you're listening to it on?

My advice to people is if you have to choose between spending money on things or experiences...I suggest experiences. You suggest things. Thats fine.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

trolling. again.

no i don't and no i'm not "lol". EVERYTHING is an experience. doing nothing is STILL an experience. experiences are subjective. and buying and owning/renting a car or other stuff is still an experience. it seems your definition of experience is something that leave an indelible memory you and others think of year and decades later, perhaps even after we're all gone. but that's ALSO true of some stuff. many people are extremely sentimental about stuff and hand it down across generations, whether it be scrapbooks, art, trophies, a classic car, whatever. and that STUFF still brings back feelings and memories.

so i think your talk of choosing between stuff and experiences is a false dichotomy. both can be frivolous or profound.

of course you don't think it's controversial, because you believe it to be singularly true and immutable. you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong. i'm saying stuff and experiences are important, and no, i don't think one should always choose some non-stuff experience over stuff.

try this... MOST stuff doesn't matter, and MOST experiences don't either. was going to the dmv for the first time an 'experience'? maybe. was going to 10th time to get a tag or whatever a memorable 'experience'? probably not. how about going to the supermarket? always a memorable 'experience'?

another thing you might be saying is people should get outside their comfort zone to experience new things that will alter their reality an broaden their viewpoint on life. i am on board with that. we ONLY grow by going outside our comfort zone. sometimes we're dragged into it, and sometimes we go willingly (even though by definition it will be uncomfortable at first at least). a classic example is jumping out of a perfectly good airplane for the first time. have you done this? you're always saying "you should" to people on here. i don't like to say that because it's not my place to say what people 'should' do. i have a family member who often does that and it's annoying.

everyone's life experience is different, and everyone WILL have experiences with or without stuff. again, while i agree with you that on one's deathbed most stuff will be utterly irrelevant, so will most experiences be too. reminds me of 'rosebud' in citizen kane.

you can't be sure of that. they may remember some, but likely not all, and not all positively. reminds me a bit of clark griswold - great intentions, lovable guy, wanting great family experiences, but a lot of it ended up pretty painful, lol.

it's all experience either way. my sister's lived in the same town i grew up in, bought a house with her husband, and they've never moved. it's not for me but that's their experience. they know every inch of the town, but they do get away for other 'experiences' but again, everything is an experience. they don't go out of their comfort zone much, which may be what you're getting at, and i think that's a shame. fear and unwillingness to go outside our comfort zone are ultimately what hold us back. you and most people on here have taken chances into unknowns, starting careers and businesses, moving all over, etc., which brought a broader perspective and affluence.

can you clarify?

struggling with a home that's too much is an experience also. it's not going to machu pichu, etc., but it can sear strong memories and emotions all the same.

right but you might also talk about the experience of that car you had that broke down someplace and the adventure that lead to. all of life is experiences, some more interesting and profound (or terrifying!) than others.

i agree and have done this with a relative who has dementia, 'taking' them to places they lived decades ago and seeing them light up, amazed to see those places, how they've changed, or haven't. before i visited the house my mom now lives in a friend had just got a new ipad and was showing me street view. i brought up my mom's house on street view and it was a great experience. when i finally got to the house i said 'yup, just like google street view!'

thank you sir.

not the same no, but again, both are experiences. i guess you're a people person and like to be around people in a shared experience.

you can't speak for someone else's emotions. the emotion YOU get may be nothing compared, but you can't speak for striker or anyone's joy/bliss at hearing a 100k audio system or whatever. it's SUBJECTIVE.

of course not the same no, and we can rationalize anything (insane cost, endless lines, hot sweaty stadium, etc), but sure, it's likely to be a one of a kind experience.

earlier this year i went to a concert with billy joel and sting. i love their songs, and they put on a great show. but it is not really an indelible memory. maybe because i'd seen billy joel before and often the 'first time' for anything is a more impactful experience of course.

you haven't figured out you're in the matrix yet and none of t's real, lol. and a ton of big concert stuff is fake these days or heavily augmented by backing tracks and of course autotune, etc.

as for leather vs the fake stuff, i think that's nostalgia mixed with snobbery on your part, but you do you. the better fake stuff is incredibly consistent, hard wearing, looks and feels great. and i don't have to think i'm sitting on a dead cow which obviously doesn't bother you.

and no doubt you will keep repeating the false dichotomy it over and over. i have an expression: "beware of the person who is sure". you are very sure of things like this.

Toys4RJill

[QUOTE=bitkahuna;11765181]trolling. again.



no i don't and no i'm not "lol". EVERYTHING is an experience. doing nothing is STILL an experience. experiences are subjective. and buying and owning/renting a car or other stuff is still an experience. it seems your definition of experience is something that leave an indelible memory you and others think of year and decades later, perhaps even after we're all gone. but that's ALSO true of some stuff. many people are extremely sentimental about stuff and hand it down across generations, whether it be scrapbooks, art, trophies, a classic car, whatever. and that STUFF still brings back feelings and memories.

so i think your talk of choosing between stuff and experiences is a false dichotomy. both can be frivolous or profound.



of course you don't think it's controversial, because you believe it to be singularly true and immutable. you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong. i'm saying stuff and experiences are important, and no, i don't think one should always choose some non-stuff experience over stuff.



try this... MOST stuff doesn't matter, and MOST experiences don't either. was going to the dmv for the first time an 'experience'? maybe. was going to 10th time to get a tag or whatever a memorable 'experience'? probably not. how about going to the supermarket? always a memorable 'experience'?

another thing you might be saying is people should get outside their comfort zone to experience new things that will alter their reality an broaden their viewpoint on life. i am on board with that. we ONLY grow by going outside our comfort zone. sometimes we're dragged into it, and sometimes we go willingly (even though by definition it will be uncomfortable at first at least). a classic example is jumping out of a perfectly good airplane for the first time. have you done this? you're always saying "you should" to people on here. i don't like to say that because it's not my place to say what people 'should' do. i have a family member who often does that and it's annoying.

everyone's life experience is different, and everyone WILL have experiences with or without stuff. again, while i agree with you that on one's deathbed most stuff will be utterly irrelevant, so will most experiences be too. reminds me of 'rosebud' in citizen kane.

[quote]When I'm gone, my kids will still remember the trips we took to Disney World, and the trips we will take them on elsewhere in the world as they get older and the times we spent together...I apologize.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

appreciated.

peteharvey

From reading this thread, it looks like consumers have very wide and varying priorities when it comes to purchasing motor vehicles.

patgilm

Yes they do but most people on here are enthusiasts so our preferences are going to be skewed compared to the poll and the general public. If we are looking at the majority of people I do believe that polls holds true. If you look at the majority of cars sold, all are appliances and not a great example of comfort/power but is good on gas mileage.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agreed, but i think the majority of people, when going to buy a car, look more at their monthly payment (not even the car price) than whether the car has 20, 25, 30, 35 etc. mpg. most people can't even do the math to figure out how much the varying mpg's would cost or save them.

if a car they have gets 25 mpg and the one they're getting gets 35 and they're 'impressed' by that, let's look at the savings.
sample 12000 mi. a year.
current car @ 25mpg = 480 gallons
new car @ 35mpg = 343 gallons
so 137 less gallons a year.
@ $4/gallon, that's $548 savings a year or ~ $46/mo.

so with the price of new cars, while it's a savings, if their payment's going up $100, not so much.

my last work car switch (ice to ev) went from about $350 to about $550 monthly lease payment, but the ev is about $100 less a month to 'fuel', but still i didn't 'save money', although i do save time not having to go to gas stations.

sorry to stereotype, but i find female car buyers care more about a car's color than anything else.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

This thread is about cars?

If we want to continue to talk about everything but cars, i'll relo this over to Clubhouse.

SW17LS

So if someone young came to you and they said I can do two things, but not both. I can buy a watch (a thing) for $20,000, or I can take an epic month long vacation through italy with my best friends which would you tell them to do? I would tell them to take the trip. Thats what I'm saying. It’s simply advice that comes from life experience. It’s not an edict to "never buy any things". You need to chill out, why does this trigger you so? Give your own advice. If you think they should buy the thing in that instance then tell them that, but I don't think you actually think that, and it’s not controversial advice.

This is what I said.

Yeah I can be sure. I'm not sure how your childhood was, but I have good memories of my childhood and the ones that stand out to me with my parents and my family are all the things we did together and especially the vacations we took. I'm not Clark Griswold...we have fun vacations that I am absolutely certain will be memories that will be meaningful in my kids lives. Even things that go wrong become positive memories. They are also meaningful to me and to my wife, we matter too.

If you had children you would get it, but you don't so you will never understand that.

And have you jump down my throat more? No I'm not interested in clarifying lol



Read this oout loud, maybe write it down:

THIS IS MY VIEWPOINT AND I DON'T NEED TO QUALIFY IT AS SUCH. If you disagree with me, DISAGREE THEN. Everything I say is "FOR ME" and everuything you say is "FOR YOU".

So you think I'm a backwards looking snob and I think you're a cynical acerbic snob. So there we are lol

I am incredibly sure of my own life experiences yes, as are you. As is everybody. I am very confident that you're going to look back on your life and the people in your life and the experiences you had are going to be more meaningful to you than the stuff you had. I have never had a conversation with someone who is dying (and I have had many) where it was not that way. I haven’t had any conversations about “remember that great stereo I had” or “that car was really awesome” with dying loved ones. If you have had conversations with people in the same circumstances where they valued the stuff they had more than the people and experiences then please share that information. If not...get off my back.

Toys4RJill

I would take the epic long vacation through Italy

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

you certainly don't need to qualify it for you, but you don't state things like that, you state it over and over emphatically that basically anyone would be a fool to disagree with you. i'm not doing the same, i'm saying everyone's experience is different and what is right for you isn't ALWAYS right for ANYONE else.

as for your example for the young person buying an expensive watch vs. taking a trip to italy, again it's not black and white. maybe the watch is the same one their parent had and they want that emotional connection to them. maybe they couldn't care less about italy. i agree that the italy trip (especially first time) would take most people out of their comfort zone and learn through those experiences (not necessarily all positive - pick pockets in rome anyone? lol).

although maybe owning the watch will take them to meeting other fancy watch owners and experts, lead to new lifelong friends and other experiences, etc.

the point is you just never know. i never know, and you never know. i am certainly willing to go outside my comfort zone though, for experiences with or without 'stuff', and will be doing so a couple of times this month, but not relevant here.

back to the thread topic... i would say the most important factor in buying a vehicle for most people is its cost. if they aren't comfortable with the cost, nothing else is relevant. after that it's probably color/design/reliability/features. fuel economy is a factor for most people but there's a lot of elasticity in it... someone might not buy a car getting 10mpg lol but they don't have to have a car that gets 40mpg, etc.