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Well, it's about time...this is WAY overdue. We're finally getting some serious commitment to fuel-cell production, which has been severely neglected for far too long. Now, of course, we also need to get cracking on hydrogen-refill sites, as it is clear that BEVs are not for everyone.
While the article does not specifically verify it, chances are that this will be a UAW plant, which will also mean good union jobs.
General Motors (GM) and Piston Automotive are in the planning stages to construct a new hydrogen fuel cell manufacturing plant in Detroit. If completed, the facility will be GM’s first standalone plant dedicated to hydrogen fuel cell production. The plant is expected to create roughly 50 assembly jobs at launch, plus a range of supporting positions, with the potential to grow to 300 jobs as production scales.
Per a report from Crain’s Detroit Business, the new facility will be located at the former State Fairgrounds along Eight Mile Road, and includes a 292,550-square-foot building. The entire building will be leased and operated by Piston Automotive, a contract manufacturer owned by former Detroit Pistons NBA player Vinnie Johnson.
“It’s great to have a new technology in the city we’re from,” said GM chief economic development and real estate officer David Massaron in an interview with Crain’s Detroit Business. “To us it’s a really exciting investment not only to the future of our company but also an investment in the city, and we’re really proud of it.”
While GM previously collaborated with Honda to produce fuel cells at a 70,000-square-foot facility in Brownstown Township, this new Detroit facility would only produce fuel cells, while the Brownstown plant also produces additional components.
That said, the Detroit project is still in its early stages, with production not expected to begin for several years. A special land use permit will be required before the factory can move forward with construction. Additionally, local residents have raised concerns about potential noise and pollution, but developers have assured the community that the facility will produce minimal pollution due to the clean nature of hydrogen technology.
The strategic location of the new hydrogen fuel cell facility places it near a key logistics hubs, including a massive 3.8-million-square-foot Amazon fulfillment center, plus a Target “sortation” warehouse.
Piston Automotive has a history with GM, with the former previously contracted to operate a “value-added assembly” plant located at the former Palace of Auburn Hills site following a major $278 million investment. The investment at the former Palace of Auburn Hills site is expected to create 960 new jobs.
Now, of course, we also need to get cracking on hydrogen-refill sites, as it is clear that BEVs are not for everyone.
Who is we?
If General Motors believes in fuel cells then why aren't they building out fueling infrastructure? Difficult to know the exact figure but Tesla has probably spent $5 billion on their supercharger network. How much has GM invested building hydrogen stations? Flowery press releases and "plans" don't build anything, get cracking indeed General Motors what are they waiting for.
If General Motors believes in fuel cells then why aren't they building out fueling infrastructure? Difficult to know the exact figure but Tesla has probably spent $5 billion on their supercharger network. How much has GM invested building hydrogen stations? Flowery press releases and "plans" don't build anything, get cracking indeed General Motors what are they waiting for.
My point indeed. This is not something that can be said just about GM., but many other organizations as well. Fuel-cell vehicles and their infrastructure, particularly outside of California, have both been ignored or neglected for too long, with too much emphasis on BEVs. The traditional argument has been that hydrogen is too difficult and expensive to produce (never mind the fact that it is more than 25% of the air we breathe and that it is the major element in water, which covers 75% of the earth's surface). Pure hydrogen can be derived from a very simple process called electrolysis of water....my class did it many years ago in middle-school science labs.
The whole "anything but BEV" mindset is like the "anything but the metric system" mindset in the US lol.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Pure hydrogen can be derived from a very simple process called electrolysis of water....my class did it many years ago in middle-school science labs.
You should call them up and offer your services, clearly you're a lot smarter than all of them lol.
Imagine thinking everybody is so dumb and you are so smart that all of these billions and billions of dollars have been spent and invested when you learned the simple solution when you were a 7th grader. Only in America!
"The traditional argument has been that hydrogen is too difficult and expensive to produce (never mind the fact that it is more than 25% of the air we breathe and that it is the major element in water, which covers 75% of the earth's surface). Pure hydrogen can be derived from a very simple process called electrolysis of water....my class did it many years ago in middle-school science labs.
True, hydrogen is abundant and can be made available as fuel through electrolysis. But the method by which electrolysis does so is right there in the word itself. If electricity is free, then Hydrogen is (nearly) free. But electricity is not free, by any stretch of the imagination. According to the Department of Energy, generating Hydrogen via electrolysis costs on average $4-6 per kilogram, depending on the source of the electricity. One kilogram of Hydrogen has a usable energy content roughly equivalent to one gallon of gasoline. So if gas prices return to historic highs, and if you can also somehow find a way to build a national infrastructure for Hydrogen production for $0, and build a network of hundreds of thousands of stations for $0, and also deliver hydrogen to said stations for $0, it will be price-competitive with the highest prices we've ever seen for gasoline. Obviously that entire scenario is patently ridiculous on its face, which is why the actual retail price of Hydrogen currently ranges between $17 and $30 per kg.
But even in that impossible, pie-in-the-sky situation where the cost at the pump exactly equals the cost of production, Hydrogen still loses to BEVs, because their cost of operation is already significantly lower than that of ICE cars with gas prices at current levels, let alone at historic highs.
Meaning taxpayers. You are strongly against tax dollars spent on electric vehicle infrastructure but not hydrogen why is that?
My point indeed. This is not something that can be said just about GM., but many other organizations as well. Fuel-cell vehicles and their infrastructure, particularly outside of California, have both been ignored or neglected for too long, with too much emphasis on BEVs. The traditional argument has been that hydrogen is too difficult and expensive to produce (never mind the fact that it is more than 25% of the air we breathe and that it is the major element in water, which covers 75% of the earth's surface). Pure hydrogen can be derived from a very simple process called electrolysis of water....my class did it many years ago in middle-school science labs.
In middle school you learn the difference between amount and availability. There are asteroids made of precious metals that doesn't increase availability on earth. This speaks for itself
The whole "anything but BEV" mindset is like the "anything but the metric system" mindset in the US lol.
Like it or not (and whether you realize it or not) BEVs are not the answer for everyone.
That is not to say I am personally against BEVs. I have sampled several of them, and I particularly liked the drivetrain in the Chevy Bolt EUV. But not everyone has access to convenient and reliable recharging outlets.
You should call them up and offer your services, clearly you're a lot smarter than all of them lol.
GM doesn't need my services (or yours)....they seem to (now) at least be moving in that direction.
Jill has also (correctly) been a proponent of Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles...and I give her a lot of credit for that.
Imagine thinking everybody is so dumb and you are so smart that all of these billions and billions of dollars have been spent and invested when you learned the simple solution when you were a 7th grader. Only in America!
It's not a question of any one of us (including you or me) being "smart" or "dumb"....this issue goes way beyond that. I couldn't care less what people think of me...whether on or off CL. I'm concerned for our automotive futures. If I posted (or drove) only based on what people personally think of me, I certainly wouldn't have 90,000+ posts .
Meaning taxpayers. You are strongly against tax dollars spent on electric vehicle infrastructure but not hydrogen why is that?
Wrong. I never once mentioned taxpayers in any of my posts about either BEVs or Fuel-cell vehicles. Funding can come from a number of different sources.
…. One kilogram of Hydrogen has a usable energy content roughly equivalent to one gallon of gasoline.
So the gen 2 Mirai hydrogen tank has a 5kg capacity, and on the lower of the two trims has an EPA estimate of around 400 miles. My gen 1 Mirai got around 300 miles, again on a 5kg fill. You’re not wrong on the problem with the price of hydrogen, but Toyota is getting up to 80 miles per kilo out of it. You’re not getting 80 mpg out of a Lexus LS or an LC which share the same platform as the Mirai.
Wrong. I never once mentioned taxpayers in any of my posts about either BEVs or Fuel-cell vehicles. Funding can come from a number of different sources.
You said we = the United States what does that mean? The United States is going to pay for hydrogen infrastructure that could not be more vague.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Jill has also (correctly) been a proponent of Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles...and I give her a lot of credit for that.
Correct how? The Mirai might sell 500 vehicles for the entire year.
09-26-24, 09:45 PM
GM Announces New Fuel-Cell Plant.
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