Acura - What's wrong??
01-22-04, 12:20 PM
#91
Originally posted by markyd23
Ha ha ha, Sorry bro, I do have a real car. ACURA TSX BABY!!! REPRESENT!!!
Ha ha ha, Sorry bro, I do have a real car. ACURA TSX BABY!!! REPRESENT!!!
LMAO... At first I thought it said NSX and then I took a second look and there was a T.... LOL
01-22-04, 12:33 PM
#92
Re: Lexus? are you kidding?
Originally posted by markyd23
Lexus, yuck! They are made for middle aged Jewish Women, except for the IS 300. But hey, Everyone has differnet taste. Its what makes the world go round.
Lexus, yuck! They are made for middle aged Jewish Women, except for the IS 300. But hey, Everyone has differnet taste. Its what makes the world go round.
grow up is your friend
01-22-04, 01:58 PM
#93
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Posts: n/a
Lexus, yuck! They are made for middle aged Jewish Women, except for the IS 300. But hey, Everyone has differnet taste. Its what makes the world go round.
Sticker prices set record in December. What buyers actually paid went up only slightly.
January 22, 2004: 2:48 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The average sticker price of a new auto purchased in December crossed $30,000 for the first time, according to price tracker Edmunds.com, but sticker shock isn't keeping buyers from getting the vehicles they want.
The average manufacturer's suggested retail price of cars and light trucks bought last month was $30,481, up 2 percent from the average sticker price in November and 4.6 percent higher than a year earlier.
TSX=25-27k fact.
They are made for middle aged Jewish Women, except for the IS 300
Please state your opinion in a mature matter. Maybe state some sort of fact?
Last edited by LexFather; 01-22-04 at 02:07 PM.
01-23-04, 02:44 PM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Sorry, the next RL will be a V-6 hybrid. And Lexus has KILLED the next RL launch, as the 2006 GS 300 will feature a V-6, hybrid with AWD. Now the new RL lost that advantage.
Honda instead is investing in building planes and not a V-8.
Sorry, the next RL will be a V-6 hybrid. And Lexus has KILLED the next RL launch, as the 2006 GS 300 will feature a V-6, hybrid with AWD. Now the new RL lost that advantage.
Honda instead is investing in building planes and not a V-8.
And, by the way.....I'm a licensed Private Pilot and Ground Instructor, and I work for the FAA...I might look at some of those Honda planes.
01-23-04, 02:51 PM
#96
Lexus Fanatic
to 1SICKLEX
Holy smoke, man. 9425 posts. And I thought I was long-winded on this show.
Seriously, congragulations....that's a lot. You must hold the record, or close to it.
Seriously, congragulations....that's a lot. You must hold the record, or close to it.
01-23-04, 04:08 PM
#98
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What were the other 425? 
01-23-04, 05:57 PM
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
What were the other 425?
, I am sure Iceman is aware.
, by the way.....I'm a licensed Private Pilot and Ground Instructor, and I work for the FAA...I might look at some of those Honda planes.
Seriously, congragulations....that's a lot. You must hold the record, or close to it.
01-23-04, 07:27 PM
#100
Should Lexus build a production "supercar" like the NSX?
http://response.jp/issue/2003/1015/a...ages/57113.jpg
http://response.jp/issue/2003/1015/a...ages/57113.jpg
01-23-04, 08:14 PM
#101
Keeper of the light
iTrader: (17)
Lexus? NO.
Toyota? YES.
acura is a sport car company before they are any type of luxury company. Lexus is backwards. LExus is strictly luxury, and adding a little sport to it with the IS.
If acura wants to build a supercar, TOYOTA needs to answer the call. But seriously, i dont see people paying that kinda money for a honda product. It's just the fact that you can get much more for your $$ in italian performance for the $$.
Toyota? YES.
acura is a sport car company before they are any type of luxury company. Lexus is backwards. LExus is strictly luxury, and adding a little sport to it with the IS.
If acura wants to build a supercar, TOYOTA needs to answer the call. But seriously, i dont see people paying that kinda money for a honda product. It's just the fact that you can get much more for your $$ in italian performance for the $$.
01-24-04, 12:05 AM
#102
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Acura works to move product mix upscale; V-8 power essential, critics say
By KATHY JACKSON | Automotive News
SEATTLE -- Tom Elliott is counting on the new Acura TL to help bring the division out of a sales slump.
Of the six largest luxury marques in this country, Acura was the only one to suffer a sales decline through the first nine months of the year. The TL, which goes on sale today, Oct. 6, can help.
Elliott, who is executive vice president of auto operations for American Honda Motor Co. Inc., predicts that the TL will help Acura set a sales record this year of 180,000 units. That would be an achievement. Acura's sales dropped 2.9 percent in 2002 and were down 2.2 percent through Sept. 30 of this year.
Some critics say Acura will never be a true luxury marque until it offers upscale rear-wheel-drive vehicles and V-8 engines. The TL runs counter to this theory - it's a front-wheel-drive car powered by a V-6 engine.
Critics argue that it will compete against vehicles such as the Nissan Maxima and Toyota Camry, rather than, say, the Lexus ES 300.
But Elliott says the market appeal of a V-8 is overblown. "I wouldn't say we won't do a V-8," he says. "It is one of the possibilities." But he admits that hybrids are the most likely route.
Elliott says Acura will decide how to increase power on each product in the next six months. "We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he says. Such a vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus a 100-hp electric motor in back.
He also says the company is considering all-wheel drive, superchargers and turbochargers, but not rwd. But critics say a V-8 is essential.
Consider the slow-selling RL sedan, Acura's $50,000 flagship. RL sales were 7,557 through the end of September, down 27.8 percent from the same period in 2002.
The vehicle's 225-hp V-6 engine does not impress consumers, says Jim Wangers, president of Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. in Vista, Calif.
"It's not so much the power but the image," Wangers says. "The price of entry in the luxury segment is a V-8, not a hybrid or a V-6. Hybrids are not accepted mainstream cars yet."
Says Daniel Gorrell, vice president for automotive of Strategic Vision in Tustin, Calif. "If they're going to be in competition with Mercedes and BMW, they need a flagship, and RL is not that. I don't see them being a serious luxury top-rung contender."
Undeterred by critics, Elliott is gradually moving Acura's product mix upscale. For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001.
"The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says. "What we will do next is fix the RL. We want it to go upscale. It needs more power, more style. It will be totally redone, and part of that will be more power."
For the moment, Acura dealers are defending the company's product lineup. "There's no question that the TL is upscale and doesn't compete against Hondas," says Jerry Britain, general manager of Downey Acura in Downey, Calif.
Britain also doesn't think V-8s are necessary, saying that the Acura V-6s are reliable, reasonably priced and handle well.
"The other luxury brands are dramatically more expensive, and they don't really have more creature comforts," he says. "The only problem I have is that I don't have enough vehicles."
By KATHY JACKSON | Automotive News
SEATTLE -- Tom Elliott is counting on the new Acura TL to help bring the division out of a sales slump.
Of the six largest luxury marques in this country, Acura was the only one to suffer a sales decline through the first nine months of the year. The TL, which goes on sale today, Oct. 6, can help.
Elliott, who is executive vice president of auto operations for American Honda Motor Co. Inc., predicts that the TL will help Acura set a sales record this year of 180,000 units. That would be an achievement. Acura's sales dropped 2.9 percent in 2002 and were down 2.2 percent through Sept. 30 of this year.
Some critics say Acura will never be a true luxury marque until it offers upscale rear-wheel-drive vehicles and V-8 engines. The TL runs counter to this theory - it's a front-wheel-drive car powered by a V-6 engine.
Critics argue that it will compete against vehicles such as the Nissan Maxima and Toyota Camry, rather than, say, the Lexus ES 300.
But Elliott says the market appeal of a V-8 is overblown. "I wouldn't say we won't do a V-8," he says. "It is one of the possibilities." But he admits that hybrids are the most likely route.
Elliott says Acura will decide how to increase power on each product in the next six months. "We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he says. Such a vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus a 100-hp electric motor in back.
He also says the company is considering all-wheel drive, superchargers and turbochargers, but not rwd. But critics say a V-8 is essential.
Consider the slow-selling RL sedan, Acura's $50,000 flagship. RL sales were 7,557 through the end of September, down 27.8 percent from the same period in 2002.
The vehicle's 225-hp V-6 engine does not impress consumers, says Jim Wangers, president of Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. in Vista, Calif.
"It's not so much the power but the image," Wangers says. "The price of entry in the luxury segment is a V-8, not a hybrid or a V-6. Hybrids are not accepted mainstream cars yet."
Says Daniel Gorrell, vice president for automotive of Strategic Vision in Tustin, Calif. "If they're going to be in competition with Mercedes and BMW, they need a flagship, and RL is not that. I don't see them being a serious luxury top-rung contender."
Undeterred by critics, Elliott is gradually moving Acura's product mix upscale. For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001.
"The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says. "What we will do next is fix the RL. We want it to go upscale. It needs more power, more style. It will be totally redone, and part of that will be more power."
For the moment, Acura dealers are defending the company's product lineup. "There's no question that the TL is upscale and doesn't compete against Hondas," says Jerry Britain, general manager of Downey Acura in Downey, Calif.
Britain also doesn't think V-8s are necessary, saying that the Acura V-6s are reliable, reasonably priced and handle well.
"The other luxury brands are dramatically more expensive, and they don't really have more creature comforts," he says. "The only problem I have is that I don't have enough vehicles."
01-24-04, 12:14 AM
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
http://www.forbes.com/home/2003/04/0...0401flint.html
Acura: The Honda That Didn't
Jerry Flint, 04.01.03, 8:00 AM ET
Remember back when Japanese cars were small, inexpensive and unpretentious?
That changed in 1986. Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) moved upscale with its Acura division aimed at the luxury market.
Talk about overnight success: Acura was quickly outselling Mercedes-Benz and BMW. And then Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) started Lexus, and Acura outsold that, too.
But that was then and this is now.
Where is Acura in today's luxury market? Most of the cars sold are sport sedans and coupes, costing $30,000 or less. Consumer Reports likes them, and testers give them good marks for handling. But most of them aren't luxury cars. Acura's best seller so far this year is a fine sport utility vehicle, the MDX, a $40,000 rival to Toyota's Lexus RX 330, but that's not quite a car; it's a cross between an SUV and a minivan, these days dubbed a "crossover."
What went wrong? It's just hard to score in the luxury market when you refuse to do an eight-cylinder engine, wear undistinguished styling and don't offer a rear-wheel-drive car. Acura's absurd system for naming its cars doesn't help either.
Let's look at these problems one by one:
Honda has an almost religious fervor when it comes to not doing an eight-cylinder car. Its $45,000 (sticker) flagship sedan, the RL, only has a six. But the top competitors in the luxury field also offer eights or even bigger engines. When Acura was new, its luxury model, the Legend, was selling 50,000 per year. Last year the RL, the Legend's replacement, sold only 9,392 units. Honda targets the RL against the Mercedes E-Class and BMW 5 Series. But each of those sold more than 40,000 units last year.
Undistinguished styling: Well, just look at the cars. It's not that they look bad, but they aren't anything special.
The Acura TL Type-S
Front-wheel drive is another drawback. Luxury cars, with a few exceptions such as Audis and the Cadillac Deville, are rear-wheel drive. Audi gets away with it by making all-wheel drive available. Going front-wheel drive was a screwup that nearly ruined Cadillac. General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) is now rectifying that mistake. Not Honda. While Acuras are good handling cars, they rarely come out on top in road tests against rear-wheel-drive models from BMW, Mercedes or Nissan's (nasdaq: NSANY - news - people ) Infiniti. In short, Acura has conceded the driving-enthusiast market to those competitors.
Model names are another problem. This is one of the strangest stories in Acura history. The original Legend was quite successful, but Honda executives decided they had a problem: More Americans knew the Legend name than the Acura name. Honda's bosses also fretted that their competitors in the luxury segment were using alphanumeric designations, such as SE 450, rather than names like Legend, Integra and Vigor.
So what did Acura do? They renamed their most successful car, the Legend, as the RL. This probably was the dumbest naming decision since Nissan abandoned the name Datsun decades ago.
In fairness, everyone seems to be trying to copy the Germans in using alphanumeric model designations, and most of them are awful. Today's Acura models are the RL, CL, TL, MDX, RSX and NSX. It's really hard to keep them straight or develop an interest in them.
Let me show you some figures that will make this clear.
Acura came out in 1986; its first full year was 1987, in which sales totaled 109,000 cars, including 55,000 Legends. The smaller Integra cars were tossed in to make sure the dealers had enough sales to survive in case the Legend bombed.
By 1990, the Acura total was 138,000, including 54,000 Legends. That same year, Mercedes sold 78,000 cars; BMW and Lexus each sold 64,000.
Last year, Acura sold 113,000 cars, about the same as it did in 1994. Its MDX sport utility vehicle pulled in another 53,000 customers, bringing total sales to 166,000. How does Acura currently stack up against the competition?
2002 Unit Sales
Marque Cars Light Trucks Total
Acura 113,000 53,000 166,000
BMW 189,000 43,000 232,000
Lexus 150,000 84,000 234,000
Mercedes 170,000 43,000 213,000
In short, the others just left Acura behind.
Look at the NSX, the Acura $90,000 sports car, which was exciting at first but is now a flop. Acura sold only 233 of them last year, compared to 13,717 Mercedes SL models.
The newest Acura, the TSX, is just coming out. It's really the European Accord, which is smaller than the American Accord. The TSX is a lively performer with a 200-horsepower four-cylinder engine, and will sticker around $30,000. This new sedan sort of fills the product hole created when the four-door Integra was dropped a few years ago. But I don't see this as a high-volume car, and neither does Acura. The sales target is only 15,000 units this year.
Honda didn't want to go where the luxury buyers go; it wanted luxury buyers to go on its road. And that hasn't worked, even for a great carmaker like Honda.
Acura: The Honda That Didn't
Jerry Flint, 04.01.03, 8:00 AM ET
Remember back when Japanese cars were small, inexpensive and unpretentious?
That changed in 1986. Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) moved upscale with its Acura division aimed at the luxury market.
Talk about overnight success: Acura was quickly outselling Mercedes-Benz and BMW. And then Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) started Lexus, and Acura outsold that, too.
But that was then and this is now.
Where is Acura in today's luxury market? Most of the cars sold are sport sedans and coupes, costing $30,000 or less. Consumer Reports likes them, and testers give them good marks for handling. But most of them aren't luxury cars. Acura's best seller so far this year is a fine sport utility vehicle, the MDX, a $40,000 rival to Toyota's Lexus RX 330, but that's not quite a car; it's a cross between an SUV and a minivan, these days dubbed a "crossover."
What went wrong? It's just hard to score in the luxury market when you refuse to do an eight-cylinder engine, wear undistinguished styling and don't offer a rear-wheel-drive car. Acura's absurd system for naming its cars doesn't help either.
Let's look at these problems one by one:
Honda has an almost religious fervor when it comes to not doing an eight-cylinder car. Its $45,000 (sticker) flagship sedan, the RL, only has a six. But the top competitors in the luxury field also offer eights or even bigger engines. When Acura was new, its luxury model, the Legend, was selling 50,000 per year. Last year the RL, the Legend's replacement, sold only 9,392 units. Honda targets the RL against the Mercedes E-Class and BMW 5 Series. But each of those sold more than 40,000 units last year.
Undistinguished styling: Well, just look at the cars. It's not that they look bad, but they aren't anything special.
The Acura TL Type-S
Front-wheel drive is another drawback. Luxury cars, with a few exceptions such as Audis and the Cadillac Deville, are rear-wheel drive. Audi gets away with it by making all-wheel drive available. Going front-wheel drive was a screwup that nearly ruined Cadillac. General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) is now rectifying that mistake. Not Honda. While Acuras are good handling cars, they rarely come out on top in road tests against rear-wheel-drive models from BMW, Mercedes or Nissan's (nasdaq: NSANY - news - people ) Infiniti. In short, Acura has conceded the driving-enthusiast market to those competitors.
Model names are another problem. This is one of the strangest stories in Acura history. The original Legend was quite successful, but Honda executives decided they had a problem: More Americans knew the Legend name than the Acura name. Honda's bosses also fretted that their competitors in the luxury segment were using alphanumeric designations, such as SE 450, rather than names like Legend, Integra and Vigor.
So what did Acura do? They renamed their most successful car, the Legend, as the RL. This probably was the dumbest naming decision since Nissan abandoned the name Datsun decades ago.
In fairness, everyone seems to be trying to copy the Germans in using alphanumeric model designations, and most of them are awful. Today's Acura models are the RL, CL, TL, MDX, RSX and NSX. It's really hard to keep them straight or develop an interest in them.
Let me show you some figures that will make this clear.
Acura came out in 1986; its first full year was 1987, in which sales totaled 109,000 cars, including 55,000 Legends. The smaller Integra cars were tossed in to make sure the dealers had enough sales to survive in case the Legend bombed.
By 1990, the Acura total was 138,000, including 54,000 Legends. That same year, Mercedes sold 78,000 cars; BMW and Lexus each sold 64,000.
Last year, Acura sold 113,000 cars, about the same as it did in 1994. Its MDX sport utility vehicle pulled in another 53,000 customers, bringing total sales to 166,000. How does Acura currently stack up against the competition?
2002 Unit Sales
Marque Cars Light Trucks Total
Acura 113,000 53,000 166,000
BMW 189,000 43,000 232,000
Lexus 150,000 84,000 234,000
Mercedes 170,000 43,000 213,000
In short, the others just left Acura behind.
Look at the NSX, the Acura $90,000 sports car, which was exciting at first but is now a flop. Acura sold only 233 of them last year, compared to 13,717 Mercedes SL models.
The newest Acura, the TSX, is just coming out. It's really the European Accord, which is smaller than the American Accord. The TSX is a lively performer with a 200-horsepower four-cylinder engine, and will sticker around $30,000. This new sedan sort of fills the product hole created when the four-door Integra was dropped a few years ago. But I don't see this as a high-volume car, and neither does Acura. The sales target is only 15,000 units this year.
Honda didn't want to go where the luxury buyers go; it wanted luxury buyers to go on its road. And that hasn't worked, even for a great carmaker like Honda.
01-24-04, 06:40 AM
#104
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Thanks for seeking out and posting those articles, Sick. They offer a pretty even-handed and balanced analysis of why Acura is struggling.
I think if the new NSX creates a sensation and they come out with an LS-rivaling RL, they could be right back in the game. Infiniti has had some success with the G35, but their image continues to flounder, probably because the Q45 just isn't catching on. With two eye-popping flagship vehicles, the entire Acura line would benefit from increased awareness and brand cache. Even though a V-8 and RWD are not critical to me personally (but look who's talking--I left Acura to buy a V-8-powered RWD sedan from Lexus), it's clear from the mood on this board and the unnamed "critics" in those articles that Acura needs to offer those features just to get a little respect.
I think if the new NSX creates a sensation and they come out with an LS-rivaling RL, they could be right back in the game. Infiniti has had some success with the G35, but their image continues to flounder, probably because the Q45 just isn't catching on. With two eye-popping flagship vehicles, the entire Acura line would benefit from increased awareness and brand cache. Even though a V-8 and RWD are not critical to me personally (but look who's talking--I left Acura to buy a V-8-powered RWD sedan from Lexus), it's clear from the mood on this board and the unnamed "critics" in those articles that Acura needs to offer those features just to get a little respect.
01-24-04, 01:17 PM
#105
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Ya know, I read about the next gen Supra being killed off and I realize that Toyota/Lexus have few if any sporty cars and zero high perf cars. Sure you could say that the IS300 is sporty - but then again you could say it is quirky too.
Once again, my point is that Honda/Acura tends to lean towards the sporty image. You could argue that the TSX should be a Honda instead of an Acura, but you can't argue that it is not of a sporty nature - nor is the RSX (same argument could apply that it should be a Honda however). The TL is far sportier than its direct FWD competition as well.
If the definition of a luxury car manufacturer is that they have a V8 RWD car then Acura is not a luxury car manufacturer. But one could argue that the Acura brand is the premium brand of Honda and in that case they have a nice lineup of cars and they do have a lot of features for the money.
I'll say it again, Acura's focus is different than Toyota/Lexus and that doesn't mean something is wrong with them.
Once again, my point is that Honda/Acura tends to lean towards the sporty image. You could argue that the TSX should be a Honda instead of an Acura, but you can't argue that it is not of a sporty nature - nor is the RSX (same argument could apply that it should be a Honda however). The TL is far sportier than its direct FWD competition as well.
If the definition of a luxury car manufacturer is that they have a V8 RWD car then Acura is not a luxury car manufacturer. But one could argue that the Acura brand is the premium brand of Honda and in that case they have a nice lineup of cars and they do have a lot of features for the money.
I'll say it again, Acura's focus is different than Toyota/Lexus and that doesn't mean something is wrong with them.