Jmai22

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FREAKIN SWEET!!!!!!!!!!

O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

FREAKING WRONG FORUM !!!!!!!!!! D

moving for you

PS- linky... not a linky might wanna fixxy.

Jmai22

CRAP, forgot,. my bad, my bad. crapper. i knew i forgot something.

ChronoJ1

iTrader: (2)

Abso-freakin-lutely fascinating.
Only if it were in English....

O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

I thought it was a great vid.

understood every word.................. ok maybe not.

SecPole14

Anybody who wonders why BMWs have questionable build quality need to look no further than his video for afirmation of the reason to doubt. I'm sure if any of the top TMC (or Honda or Mazda) brass saw this video, they would go laughing back to Toyota City (or Tokyo and Hiroshima, respectively).

Why buy Made in Japan when you can have brand-new '80s sophistication from Germany?

MSBoy

I guess I'm just ignorant as to the "right" way to build a quality car. What is it that you found questionable in the video?

As far as I'm concerned, watching that video nearly brought a tear to my eye! LOL! Just seeing the plant where my baby was built and the way they made her... it was just friggin' emotional!

By the way, no quality problem to date! Just pure //Motorsport FUN!!!

nextlevelcoupe

iTrader: (1)

marvelous technological feats being displayed here,but too it's too bad they still can't get it right!
where is the lexus assembly line?

SecPole14

Lumberg: "Ummmmm, yeah..."

I had to watch an hour-long video in my business class about the constuction of the BMW plant nearby and how they build the cars there. It made me furious. All the BMW execs talked about was "just in time" production...Hmmm, whose idea was that? Oh, I don't know, maybe a gentleman by the name of Taiichi Ohno, an employee of the TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION. BMW has bastardized "just in time." They think it's ultimate extent is their custom-order implementation. In reality, JIT goes far beyond inventory management and ties into overall quality and production method(s).

Guess what? Most of the people working in the Lexus plants in Japan are there for quality control purposes. There are even automated trucks that run around and deliver supplies to the robots and stop and beep if a human happens to cross their path.

The BMW video also stated that humans are a vital part of the assembly process and that BMW would use as many humans as possible in the production of their vehicles because robots and automation are only to be used in the most extreme circumstances. They claimed that having humans assemble BMWs enhanced the image and intangible value of the car.

Are you joking? Japanese companies take a totally different approach. In fact, it's the exact opposite. Humans f-up. A lot. Maybe they're worried about their sick child. Maybe they just recovered from a surgery. Maybe their boss pissed them off and they're going to stick it to the man by messing up that M5 rolling down the line. That's what bothers me. The less humans, the better.

Via Japanese methods the machines can work it harder, make it better, do it faster, make is stronger; more than ever, hour after hour.

And did you see the workers?

Seriously, I have not seen a Japanese assembly line where the workers are not wearing hard hats. Safety is Job No. 1.

And what was with all the goofing off? I dare you to find those kind of shenanigans and high-fives and idle chatter as the car rolls by the stations in a Japanese plant.

Jewels: "I dare ya, I double dare ya..."

Well, all I can say is that I have total faith and confidence in Japanese products and the ways they are made. And I will defend said products and production methods with great fervor, not hesitating to ream the arrogant German methods and idealology while I'm at it.

However, the things I find wrong with the BMW production method pale in comparison to the new plant and methods by which VW assembles the Phateon...A new level of lunacy I don't even want to get into here.

MSBoy

Dude, I am sorry, but your complaints are not very legitimate. I could see if you saw something inappropriate or inproperly done. If you did, you didn't mention it. I could see if you were a trained expert on how things should be run in a automobile manufacturer's assemply plant. You're clearly not an expert and therefore cannot really comment authoritatively on the processes and/or proceedures thereby implemented, shown or not shown in that video. For the record, I am no expert either and therefore cannot comment on the right or wrong of the proceedures implemented, as far as can be seen from that video.

What I can comment on with authority is my ownership experience. I own an E46 and it is by far the best quality car that I've owned. I cannot complain too much about the other cars that I've owned though. I owned a Nissan Maxima, which was also a great car and a Chrysler Lebaron... not so great, but good. I happen to be a member of a couple of BMW forums as well, and am very aware of the common complaints and issues in E46s, but they do not surpass the kinds of complaints that I've seen from Lexus owners right here on CL and other Japanese car forums that I have visited or have been a member of.

I guess my point is, you seem to rant about how unacceptable BMW's manufacturing plant and manufacturing process is and yet have no real valid reason to do so. The fact that they have more humans working in their plant than some Japanese car manufacturers makes it inferior? And aslo, the fact that the workers were smiling and seeminly having a good time as they worked at the end of the video... that aids in making the manufacturing process a poor quality? I didn't see anyone goofing around. What may have been PERCEIVED as goofing around to you was simply a few guys who KNEW a camera was on them and they were simply smiling for the camera.

Let me assure you, I am not defending BMW here. I am only trying to objectively see why you say their manufacturing process is so poor based on that video. I am trying to see what valid complaints you have. From a layman's point of view, you don't have any valid complaint or any reason to call into question the quality of BMW's manufacturing process based on that video. I believe you when you say the Japanese do it differently, but I would personally never presume to say that one process is BETTER than the other unless I had some data to back it up.

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

anyone know how I can save a file from a mms:// ? I tried DLing programs and it don't work. Certainly can't right click and save as.

SecPole14

I'm not sure why you think I want to look at this issue objectively. I don't, and I thought I made that clear: I have a strong bias in regard to Japanese products.

I honestly have neither the time nor the desire to scour Google for facts and figures to back up my statements. However, no one can really argue that BMWs are better made or are more reliable or are of higher quality than Lexus products. The fact that a Lexus product is as reliable as it is and is of high quality is a reflection not only on the excellent design, but also on the methods of manufacture.

Hand tools to measure gaps, etc.? Come on. There's really no point in going on with this discussion unless someone can find a video of a Lexus being assembled.

For what it's worth the video I saw was produced by BMW and, of course, they took their typically laughable shots at the way Japanese cars are designed and made and, of course, made sure to be as arrogant as possible.

Never in my life would I patronize a company like that. I've always considered the possibility of owning a BMW in the future, but I think I'll probably stop considering that as an option...I mean, I could buy a Lexus instead.

Jmai22

does anyone know know why the stored the bmw shells away after they were done being painted. i'm sure it wasn't to dry because they ran it through the heater right? same thing with the engines??? why didn't they just make a bunch of blue cars, then black, the silver, and so on. i don't see why the put the shells back on the shelf. also with the engine, why didn't they take the engine from one end of the storage?? they just took one right from the middle??

i'll see if i can dig up more car assembly videos. like the one i posted.

SecPole14

BMW does custom/factory orders. They assemble and paint the shell and then store it until an order comes in or until it is that shell's turn to go into the order queue.

So the assembly line is usually full, so they have shells and motors waiting in advance. So say I order a blue car with the diesel. When a spot in the assembly queue opens up, Mr. Roboto takes my blue shell and my diesel motor and send them on their way.

This is one area where I commend BMW. Their on-demand, no-BS factory order system is kinda cool (BMW uses the same system with the Mini). More manufacturers should do this.

MSBoy

You have no time to look up and produce facts, but you have all the time in the world to rant and rave on how BMW quality is terrible. You're also very clear about the fact that you don't care to look at the issue objectively. There is a thing called credibility. At this point and time, you have zero of it and you just make it worse by the things you say. I am an objective person and will absolutly consider ANY valid claim on something with proof, just as would be done in a court of law OR in ANY reasonable conversation with any reasonable adult.

I happen to love BMWs! I also happen to love Lexus! In my humble opinion, both are VERY fine automobile manufacturers and the proof is in the reviews (in magazines) and ownership experiences! Perhaps the Japanese manufacturing process is in fact different than that implemented by the Germans. Who are you to judge who has a better process when you know absolutly nothing about the building process and regulations and such?

In my objective opinion, you just sound plain angry. You've got a boat load of complaints with no proof to back them up and you don't want to provide the proof either (as you yourself stated). My friend, it is perfectly okay to have a passion for something. It is another thing altogether to be fanatical by taking your passion to the next level. It reminds me of some religious fanatics who say things like, "THAT'S THE WAY IT IS!! THAT'S THE WAY IT IS!! IT'S IN THE BIBLE!!" When you ask them to show you were in the Bible it is located, they don't have time to show you. You are just supposed to take their yelling and screaming as an authoratative confirmation of the truth. Well, I am not a fool and will never take what someone says at face value just because they are spewing it loud and boisterous. I will always be the person who says, "Show me the proof and THEN I will believe."

That being said, let me conclude by saying this:

I will always be a Japanese car lover (especially Lexus and Acura)... but not because of people like you who spew out unverifiable nonesence about other car manufacturers just because you have a passion for one inparticular. I will always take the intelligent, objective route of THINKING and base my comments and decisions on that.

-Ron