If you really care about your car, here's why you should not let it idle for too long
02-22-04, 06:30 AM
#1
EV ftw!!!
Thread Starter
If you really care about your car, here's why you should not let it idle for too long
I have to confess that I am an enviromentalist. I strongly believe we should do our best for the environment for one very simple and obvious reason - we need to leave a healthy environment for our children (and their children and so on) to grow up in. I also believe that if we all make a concerted effort to make our own small contribution towards this goal, then we can succeed. It is the power of numbers that counts here.
Anyway, enough of that, as that may not be so important to some of us. However being members of this board, what may be more important to you is the care of your car. Right? Well, if you live in the Northern climates and have one of those remote starters so that you can warm your car for a good 15 mins before you drive out in your comfy and cozy warm interior or you just simply like to warm up your car for more than 30 seconds before you drive it, here are some very strong reasons why you should not do that. (intepretation of that is - you are causing damage to your engine)
The long and short of this is that idling is not good for your pride and joy Lexus (or any other car). It can even damage the engine, depending on the car's age and general state of repair. The most efficient way to warm it up is to drive it. "Warm-up" idling should be limited to 30 seconds, then put it in gear and drive off. But, you should avoid fast acceleration and high speeds for the first few kilometres.
If you are not an environmentalist, the following facts may not concern you, but I thought I should point them out to those who are curious to know.
"According to Natural Resources Canada, if every driver of a light-duty vehicle - cars, pick-ups and SUV's - in Canada avoided idling for just five minutes, we would save 1.9 million litres of fuel, worth more than $1.3 million (at 70 cents per litre), and more than 2 million tonnes of carbon dioxide would be prevented from entering the atmosphere each year."
Anyway, enough of that, as that may not be so important to some of us. However being members of this board, what may be more important to you is the care of your car. Right? Well, if you live in the Northern climates and have one of those remote starters so that you can warm your car for a good 15 mins before you drive out in your comfy and cozy warm interior or you just simply like to warm up your car for more than 30 seconds before you drive it, here are some very strong reasons why you should not do that. (intepretation of that is - you are causing damage to your engine)
- Idling merely warms the engine and not other hardware, such as the transmission and wheel bearings that get warmed up by driving the vehicle
- During idling, the car isn't working at its peak operating temperature, fuel combustion is not complete and the resulting fuel residue can cause engine problems
- A car's catalytic converter, which engine exhaust gases before they leave the car, doew not work when cold. It requires high temperatures, which are best obtained by driving the vehicle
- Restarting a vehicle does not cause excessive wear and tear on the engine, and idling for more than 10 seconds costs more than turning off the engine. If stopped for more than 10 seconds (except when in traffic), turn off the engine
The long and short of this is that idling is not good for your pride and joy Lexus (or any other car). It can even damage the engine, depending on the car's age and general state of repair. The most efficient way to warm it up is to drive it. "Warm-up" idling should be limited to 30 seconds, then put it in gear and drive off. But, you should avoid fast acceleration and high speeds for the first few kilometres.
If you are not an environmentalist, the following facts may not concern you, but I thought I should point them out to those who are curious to know.
"According to Natural Resources Canada, if every driver of a light-duty vehicle - cars, pick-ups and SUV's - in Canada avoided idling for just five minutes, we would save 1.9 million litres of fuel, worth more than $1.3 million (at 70 cents per litre), and more than 2 million tonnes of carbon dioxide would be prevented from entering the atmosphere each year."
Last edited by Hameed; 02-22-04 at 07:49 AM.
02-22-04, 07:41 AM
#2
Racer
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I unfortunately tended to warm up my vehicle to near operatoing temperature for several weeks and although it still runs basically the same, I regret doing so because of what I learned from articles like this. Now I just start it, wait just a few seconds for oil pressure to rise and then drive off.
02-22-04, 08:48 AM
#3
Keeper of the light
iTrader: (17)
A few reasons NOT to just get in your car and drive:
cold oil produces high oil pressure, but low oil circulation.
By driving immediately you are forcing thick oil (the same oil that takes forever to drain out of the bottle when cold) through your engine.
with low oil flow at a higher viscosity your engine does not get the lubrication it needs and can result in premature wear.
with the components of your engine ice cold, shrinkage occurs which results pushng oil past area's it normally wouldn't be. this can be oil going past worn rings and vavles, which can cause fouled plug as well as sensor failure. You are more likely to push this oil at ice cold tempratures with everything shrunk down, before heat set's in and expands everything.
cold oil produces high oil pressure, but low oil circulation.
By driving immediately you are forcing thick oil (the same oil that takes forever to drain out of the bottle when cold) through your engine.
with low oil flow at a higher viscosity your engine does not get the lubrication it needs and can result in premature wear.
with the components of your engine ice cold, shrinkage occurs which results pushng oil past area's it normally wouldn't be. this can be oil going past worn rings and vavles, which can cause fouled plug as well as sensor failure. You are more likely to push this oil at ice cold tempratures with everything shrunk down, before heat set's in and expands everything.
Last edited by O. L. T.; 02-22-04 at 08:49 AM.
02-22-04, 09:43 AM
#4
02-22-04, 10:16 AM
#5
Lexus Champion
OLT has a good point.
I believe that while you shouldn't let your car idle for too long after you start up the engine, you should at least allow the RPM to drop 1-200 (approx. 2-3 minutes of ilding) before you drive off.
Cars are very similar to humans, the engine and hoses are just like human heart and arteries. Given the age of most of the Lexus cars here on the boards, driving off a few seconds after you started up the engine is no different from asking an old man to jump off the bed the first thing he wakes up in the morning. Old people generally stay on the bed for a while, and do a few things on the bed before they walk off the bed just to warm themselves up. If they leave the bed instaneously, most likely they're just asking for heart attacks.
Jon
I believe that while you shouldn't let your car idle for too long after you start up the engine, you should at least allow the RPM to drop 1-200 (approx. 2-3 minutes of ilding) before you drive off.
Cars are very similar to humans, the engine and hoses are just like human heart and arteries. Given the age of most of the Lexus cars here on the boards, driving off a few seconds after you started up the engine is no different from asking an old man to jump off the bed the first thing he wakes up in the morning. Old people generally stay on the bed for a while, and do a few things on the bed before they walk off the bed just to warm themselves up. If they leave the bed instaneously, most likely they're just asking for heart attacks.
Jon
Originally posted by O. L. T.
A few reasons NOT to just get in your car and drive:
cold oil produces high oil pressure, but low oil circulation.
By driving immediately you are forcing thick oil (the same oil that takes forever to drain out of the bottle when cold) through your engine.
with low oil flow at a higher viscosity your engine does not get the lubrication it needs and can result in premature wear.
with the components of your engine ice cold, shrinkage occurs which results pushng oil past area's it normally wouldn't be. this can be oil going past worn rings and vavles, which can cause fouled plug as well as sensor failure. You are more likely to push this oil at ice cold tempratures with everything shrunk down, before heat set's in and expands everything.
A few reasons NOT to just get in your car and drive:
cold oil produces high oil pressure, but low oil circulation.
By driving immediately you are forcing thick oil (the same oil that takes forever to drain out of the bottle when cold) through your engine.
with low oil flow at a higher viscosity your engine does not get the lubrication it needs and can result in premature wear.
with the components of your engine ice cold, shrinkage occurs which results pushng oil past area's it normally wouldn't be. this can be oil going past worn rings and vavles, which can cause fouled plug as well as sensor failure. You are more likely to push this oil at ice cold tempratures with everything shrunk down, before heat set's in and expands everything.
02-22-04, 11:01 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Originally posted by O. L. T.
with the components of your engine ice cold, shrinkage occurs...
with the components of your engine ice cold, shrinkage occurs...
02-23-04, 04:09 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Warm-up idle
If you're really concerned about quick oil pressure and circulation on a cold start, then use either full synthetic oil or a synthetic blend. Many places in the country, though, it isn't really necessary.
The comments about not idling for long periods on a cold start are correct. The engine will warm up faster, more efficiently, and also get the transmission and differential fluids warmed up faster if you give it a 30-second to 1 minute idle depending on temperature, drive it slowly until about 140 degrees on the temp gauge ( about a quarter of the way up), and keep the RPM below 3000. Then you can drive normally.
Many cars, including the IS300, have cold-temperature sensors that prevent the automatic transmission from upshifting into certain gears at cold transmission temperatures. This, of course, adds RPM to the cold engine...another reason to keep the speed down while cold.
The comments about not idling for long periods on a cold start are correct. The engine will warm up faster, more efficiently, and also get the transmission and differential fluids warmed up faster if you give it a 30-second to 1 minute idle depending on temperature, drive it slowly until about 140 degrees on the temp gauge ( about a quarter of the way up), and keep the RPM below 3000. Then you can drive normally.
Many cars, including the IS300, have cold-temperature sensors that prevent the automatic transmission from upshifting into certain gears at cold transmission temperatures. This, of course, adds RPM to the cold engine...another reason to keep the speed down while cold.
Trending Topics
02-23-04, 09:39 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
mmarshall - good comments.
The comments in this thread about 'thick' or 'cold' oil aren't a problem with modern motor oils of the correct weight (non-synthetic) unless it's BRUTALLY cold (like in Alberta or Fargo or some other frozen hell hole).
The comments in this thread about 'thick' or 'cold' oil aren't a problem with modern motor oils of the correct weight (non-synthetic) unless it's BRUTALLY cold (like in Alberta or Fargo or some other frozen hell hole).
02-23-04, 10:56 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
I still don’t think this article is 100% correct. I believe that the best approach would be the combination of the following two methods: Idling the car for 2-3 minutes and then drive away slowly for another 2-3 minutes until all the mechanical components completely warm up.
The primarily purpose of this article is to convey people not to drive their cars aggressively within the first few minutes after the engine start up, not to prove a point that idling a car is bad in all cases.
Therefore, the correct proposition is not just: IT DAMAGES YOUR CAR ONLY WHEN YOU LEAVE IT IDLING
It should be: It damages your car only when you leave it idling, AND DO NOT KEEP THE RPM WITHIN 3K FOR ANOTHER 2-3 MINUTES AFTER YOU START DRIVING
Think about it, common sense dictates that you shouldn’t be start driving a car that’s idling at 1.2-1.3k RPM unless it’s a car that’s tune to idle at that speed. When the engine is completely warmed up, my SC4 idles at about 0.6k RPM. There’s no way that I would start driving my car 10 seconds after I start up the engine, when it’s revving twice as it usually would at 1.2K. Therefore, I usually wait at least 2-3 minutes until the RPM drops to about 1k. Then I drive off slowly for another 2-3 minutes to make sure that all the other components are warmed up and the temperature gauge reach its warm area.
True, there are cold sensors or whatever gadgets that car makers put in their cars to prevent transmission up shifts when the car is not warmed up. But relying on these things is just like saying it’s perfectly okay to continuously drive your car at high RPM range because the rev limiter prevents your engine from running in the red line zone.
Many of the points mentioned by the article could have been easily addressed. For example, regarding the point that states “fuel combustion is not complete and the resulting fuel residue can cause engine problems when idling”, this can be simply solved by running a “wide, open throttle runs” on the freeway once every now and then. This technique will also clean out the excessive carbon buildups in the engine.
As for “shutting off the engine if you have to idling for more than 10 seconds,” this proposition seems just absurd. Why would anyone risk the life of his/her starter by turning it on and off again every time when there’s a traffic stop that’s longer than 10 seconds? Unless you’re waiting for a 300 cart train in front of a railroad track, I think the more proper way should be simply shifting the automatic transmission into the “neutral” position.
As much as many technical write ups seem logical and perhaps even convincing, I personally don’t think they’re written very clearly. Sometimes I think instinct and common sense (especially taken from experiences of old mechanics) may help preserve the life of our engine and maybe even the whole car itself more than anything else.
Jon
The primarily purpose of this article is to convey people not to drive their cars aggressively within the first few minutes after the engine start up, not to prove a point that idling a car is bad in all cases.
Therefore, the correct proposition is not just: IT DAMAGES YOUR CAR ONLY WHEN YOU LEAVE IT IDLING
It should be: It damages your car only when you leave it idling, AND DO NOT KEEP THE RPM WITHIN 3K FOR ANOTHER 2-3 MINUTES AFTER YOU START DRIVING
Think about it, common sense dictates that you shouldn’t be start driving a car that’s idling at 1.2-1.3k RPM unless it’s a car that’s tune to idle at that speed. When the engine is completely warmed up, my SC4 idles at about 0.6k RPM. There’s no way that I would start driving my car 10 seconds after I start up the engine, when it’s revving twice as it usually would at 1.2K. Therefore, I usually wait at least 2-3 minutes until the RPM drops to about 1k. Then I drive off slowly for another 2-3 minutes to make sure that all the other components are warmed up and the temperature gauge reach its warm area.
True, there are cold sensors or whatever gadgets that car makers put in their cars to prevent transmission up shifts when the car is not warmed up. But relying on these things is just like saying it’s perfectly okay to continuously drive your car at high RPM range because the rev limiter prevents your engine from running in the red line zone.
Many of the points mentioned by the article could have been easily addressed. For example, regarding the point that states “fuel combustion is not complete and the resulting fuel residue can cause engine problems when idling”, this can be simply solved by running a “wide, open throttle runs” on the freeway once every now and then. This technique will also clean out the excessive carbon buildups in the engine.
As for “shutting off the engine if you have to idling for more than 10 seconds,” this proposition seems just absurd. Why would anyone risk the life of his/her starter by turning it on and off again every time when there’s a traffic stop that’s longer than 10 seconds? Unless you’re waiting for a 300 cart train in front of a railroad track, I think the more proper way should be simply shifting the automatic transmission into the “neutral” position.
As much as many technical write ups seem logical and perhaps even convincing, I personally don’t think they’re written very clearly. Sometimes I think instinct and common sense (especially taken from experiences of old mechanics) may help preserve the life of our engine and maybe even the whole car itself more than anything else.
Jon
02-23-04, 11:53 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Jon - dead on. Each workday morning I start my car, let it idle for about 30 seconds, pull back, pull slowly down my driveway, which has a drainage dip at the end I must go over slowly anyway so I don't scrape the front, then I go slowly up my street (2 tenths), slowly down a residential road to the highway, and then the car is warmed enough to do whatever I want on the highway.
02-23-04, 01:31 PM
#11
Originally posted by bitkahuna
Each workday morning I start my car, let it idle for about 30 seconds, pull back, pull slowly down my driveway, which has a drainage dip at the end I must go over slowly anyway so I don't scrape the front, then I go slowly up my street (2 tenths), slowly down a residential road to the highway, and then the car is warmed enough to do whatever I want on the highway.
Each workday morning I start my car, let it idle for about 30 seconds, pull back, pull slowly down my driveway, which has a drainage dip at the end I must go over slowly anyway so I don't scrape the front, then I go slowly up my street (2 tenths), slowly down a residential road to the highway, and then the car is warmed enough to do whatever I want on the highway.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post